Episode 309 - Innocent civilians trapped in Afghanistan and NSW

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Well, hello there, dear listener.

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This is the iron fist and the velvet glove podcast.

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It is Tuesday 17th of August, 2021.

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And I think we're up to episode 300 night.

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Not quite sure.

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I just checked.

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It is 3 0 9.

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Thank you, Joe.

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The tech guy.

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So anyway, episode 309, the iron fist and the velvet glove podcast,

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where we talk about news and politics and sex and religion.

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I of course am Trevor AKA, the iron fist with me with a new microphone that you

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gathered today and the sound's great.

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The video's great.

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Shea.

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Welcome back again.

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Good evening.

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Hi everybody.

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And Joe, the tech guy is there as well evening all so, oh yes.

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In the chat room, say hello so that we know you're there and

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we'll try and get to you comments.

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We don't have a whole heap of.

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Topics that I normally have.

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So we'll probably be looking for some comments from the chat room.

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So by all means, make a comment, say, hello, it'd be great.

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And well, what are we going to be talking about tonight?

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I think we have to talk about new south Wales and lockdowns and Gladys

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Berejiklian and probably a bit about Afghanistan and Shay, you found something

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interesting about legalization of prostitution and thoughts about that

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and a whole bunch of different topics.

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So we'll kick them off and see what rabbit holes we end up going down.

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Thanks to dire straits.

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He says a lot on the chat room and well, shall he got any friends

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in new south Wales in Sydney?

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Do you have any friends in bemoaning their situation?

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I have a bunch of cousins in Newcastle and I have a couple in rave SPE.

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So yeah.

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Unhappy my cousins in new console, we're planning to get, this is the, the

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time they've rescheduled their wedding.

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So that's been just canned as well.

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Cause it was what happened in Brisbane.

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And do you think they're bitter bit, I mean, anecdote isn't, you know, a number

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of anecdotes isn't the plural of anecdote isn't data, but we'll do it anyway.

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Your friends, are they like so pissed with Berejiklian that they can't

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wait to vote her out next time?

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Or you think it's got no, right.

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No, I don't think it's connected.

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They seem to be just like pissed off at their circumstance, but like,

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get that it's a pandemic and they just they're pretty fair about it.

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They just say, you know, like we're in new territory all the time and we don't know.

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Right?

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Like you can tell that, you know, the premiers off kind of

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fumbling their way through it.

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Yes.

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And that's what I find with, with, you know, anecdotally with

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Australians, they are quite gracious.

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Yeah.

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Hmm.

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Well, I'm not the health report today.

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They said for every week you take to go into lockdown, you get five times as many

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cases for every week you go into lockdown or that you don't go into lockdown.

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Yeah.

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You get fired.

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Okay.

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Yup.

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That wouldn't surprise me.

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And that was before Delta, but at one level I could be sympathetic

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for any political leader that some of this happens beyond your

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control and you can be just online.

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But in the case of Berejiklian, she really annoyed me with her comments

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in relation to dictate a day in.

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And she was so cocky about how different they were in new south Wales.

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So my son sent me a link to a YouTube video, which goes for about seven

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minutes and I've condensed it down to about two minutes, which is.

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Highlights the hypocrisy of Gladys.

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So I'm going to play that.

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It's going to go for two minutes and 11 seconds and have listened to this new

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south Wales is the gold standard and new south Wales is the gold standard.

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I'm very proud of your time.

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The prime minister regards new south Wales as the gold standard.

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And I fear for Victoria and I worry about what the government may do.

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And we made sure that we had the systems in place to be able to weather, whatever

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came our way so that we wouldn't ever go into lockdown again from 6:00 PM

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today, lockdown, lockdown, lockdown, lockdown, lockdown, lockdown, so that

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we wouldn't ever go into lockdown again, greater Sydney will be in lockdown and

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locked in, locked down for a further four weeks to the 28th of August.

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So I talked about good management being critical during a, during

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a crisis, but so is trust.

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And we trusted our public.

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We trusted our community when we gave them advice to do the right thing.

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The crowd grew so fast with hardly a mask inside onwards.

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They marched from Broadway to town hall.

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Once at town hall, they took every vantage spot from high above the

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numbers were staggering, south Wales.

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We didn't make up lists of who was an essential worker.

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Nobody can work outside of that local government area unless, unless

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they're a health or aged care worker or on the list of critical workers.

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Can I make it very clear that new south Wales, unlike other states has

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never determined what is essential and what is not essential, but from

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midnight tonight, we will also.

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Make sure that only critical retail remains open.

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We have a list of what is critical retails and in new south Wales, we didn't

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make up lists of who was an essential worker on the list of critical workers.

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We didn't make up lists.

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We have a list.

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We didn't make up lists.

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Now we have a list.

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We didn't make up lists.

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We've considered carefully what is on that critical lessons.

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And I hope we've demonstrated in new south Wales.

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There is an alternate turn it way to heavy handed lockdowns

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and heavy handed approaches.

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Will we have harsher restrictions in place than any other state has ever had?

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Even during the lockdown, our construction sites, we're still going

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until July 30 until midnight on July 30.

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There will be a pause on all construction, large or small.

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We know that when S when you're in a lockdown, it's easy to control the virus.

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It's much easier to look down because you don't have to worry about anything.

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We're very courageous when it comes to the virus.

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A lot of those comments have not aged very well.

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No, there's no admission.

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Okay.

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We got it wrong.

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There's none of the Peter beady.

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Whoops, made a mistake just to keep charging on.

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And boy, you know, she's really had to backtrack on so much of what she said.

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So it had to happen to somebody and then happening to her was probably the best.

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I think might've taught her some humility, thinks time, something happens to

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another state and she just gets lucky.

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Then hold my breath on the humility, Joe, th there was also the clip of

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her OS being asked if she realized now she, she felt how the other states

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felt when she asked, when she refused earlier on to give them vaccines

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when Victoria was in a similar state.

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And she couldn't understand that her asking for vaccines now, Yes, indeed.

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Hello in the chat room to Brahman Dawn James, Jack whoever's

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making comments in there.

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Good on you.

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Keep making those comments.

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So obviously now new south Wales is really given in, on ever getting back to zero.

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It seems from the comments that she's making and just as an outside observer,

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looking at the state, it's hard to imagine them getting back to zero.

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So this is really the next step in the whole process, Shea, where it's

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about at what level of vaccination do we just open up again and,

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and say, okay, that's enough.

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And, and start getting back to normal trade relying on a certain vaccination

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level, got any thoughts that you're comfortable with as a number?

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Yeah, I think the national strategies 80%.

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So I'd be satisfied with that.

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Eligible adults.

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Is that, is that what it would be?

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Right.

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So, so really it's 60% of the population, or even 50% of the

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population and give them a lot of kids have got this Delta virus.

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Now you really probably need to be 80% of kids as well.

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Like that sort of teenagers, at least.

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Yeah, I would say so.

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Yeah.

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It's going to be tricky to get to that level.

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And there is going to be a point there, you know, it has to come at

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some point where we say enough's enough and we just can't keep locking down.

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And, and there will be a day where we just open up and say, you're going

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to have to rely on your vaccination.

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And there will be a spike in cases and a spike in deaths on that day of people

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who either didn't want the vaccination or as Joe points out, often people who

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couldn't get it because of different reasons that they're unable to.

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It's just, what's going to happen at some point.

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And it is possible to get back to zero, which would buy some more time.

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Victoria did it from 700 cases a day.

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Yeah.

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But that was, but they got, they were serious about it.

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Weren't they joke exactly.

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That's the difference you have to go in seriously, you have to

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look down and there will be pain.

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And I don't think they have the political willpower to do that.

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Yeah.

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Yep.

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So Julia, in the chat room says you have 80%, doesn't include kids and they

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need to be included in the figures now.

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Yes.

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So so just, yeah, that's the next part of this whole discussion is, is where

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we head to with vaccination rights and, and of course they will be.

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Probably business people on the one hand wanting to make decisions that

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are less concerned with public health.

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And there will be people who are concerned with public health and

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not so concerned with business.

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And we will be bound to see the the fighting between the two

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forces and how it plays out.

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I think the evidence is fairly good that it's not neither all

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that just concentrating on business and not worrying about health is

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actually detrimental to business because people, people get scared.

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And if the virus is left on it to run its course, people still won't go out.

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You know, a minority will.

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But you, you won't have the same level of business that you would, that we

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were enjoying having got to zero cases, but the people like, ah, screw Turner

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in charge of flight center and other groups Em, I think of really, they're

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just going to be pushing forward and they don't see that argument.

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They just want to be able to operate their businesses at full steam and local cafes

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and restaurant groups going to say, we want to be open and we just don't care.

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We need were going broke.

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We need the money.

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And that is one of the problems that you have to have sympathy for these people.

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They're not getting the same money that they got at the beginning of the pandemic

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with the money that was handed out.

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I know in the art supply will that when the lockdowns first happened back last

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year, there was a lot of money, a wash, a lot of struggling artists actually

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had more money than they had previously.

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And there was a lot of art supplies being bought, but that's not the case.

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This time round it's sort of consumer sentiment is a lot slower.

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It's a lot weaker this time.

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Well, because job seeker and job keeper are gone.

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Yes.

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And there are small handouts from the government, but nothing like we need.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Why aren't people complaining about this more and I don't get it.

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Yeah.

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Anyway I've been listening to the chaser podcast.

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Anybody else out there listening to that?

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It's fantastic.

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Those guys are logged down, so they've got nothing else to do, but turn

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out really funny podcast every week.

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It's very, very good.

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You should listen to it.

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And anyway, Charles Firth he wrote an article he's from the chaser and

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he talked about how Morrison gets things wrong all the time in, in this.

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And he said Scott Morrison unveiled an all new four-stage plan out of COVID

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endorsed by the national cabinet.

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This is not to be confused with the three-stage plan that Morrison announced

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in may or the COVID vaccination allocations horizon plan that he

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unveiled in June or the COVID 19 vaccine and treatment strategy plan.

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Revealed a year ago when he proudly announced he'd secured enough vaccine

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for everyone with so many worldwide planes and say little achieve.

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We have now more than enough evidence to introduce a new iron law into the very

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scientific field of political science.

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Scott Morrison has been so wrong about every single aspect of the pandemic that

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his wrongness now has predictive powers.

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If Scott Morrison says something is going to happen, it is possible to say with

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absolute certainty using the and law.

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But whatever he said is definitely not going to happen.

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If Scott Morrison thinks something is a good idea, then it is

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definitely not a good idea.

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If Scott Morrison says we don't need purpose-built quarantine facilities.

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And even if you lack any other data point or expertise, you can be

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absolutely assured that we fucking need purpose-built quarantine

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facilities in the Italy entails first.

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It says, this is the Morrison certainty principle, and I loved it.

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So.

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Yeah.

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If he says it, it's probably wrong Morrison, certainty, principle, what a

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mess we're in having that guy in charge.

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So, ah, okay.

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Or then is aiming for 80% as our target.

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Does that even seem likely, then I saw her at Powell, the essential poll came

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out, talking about people's reluctance to get the vaccine, you know, are you

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likely to get soon or sometime or never?

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And they never figured dropped a lot.

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So that was good.

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It had been back to sort of, it went back to like single figures of people

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saying they would never get it.

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So I think 80% is possible.

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Yeah, I think so.

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Hmm.

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Hmm.

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Okay.

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Let's move on from COVID for a little while.

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And the national sec.

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Well, we had the census.

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Shay and Joe seemed to filled it in.

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It was if he didn't don't tell me, cause it's illegal, not to where

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all the libertarians, by the way, complaining about being forced to

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fill in the census form, you know, forced to wear a mask forced to stay

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at home and see any protests about having to divulge personal info.

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But anyway at the census.

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So of course for us, the big question was the religious question.

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And the way it's been phrased is particularly annoying for

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pro secular groups, because it says, what is your religion?

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And that's kind of like a leaning question where people will think rather

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than stopping to think, do I have a religion they'll sort of nominate one

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that they were brought up in, in secular groups have for years been saying that

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if the question was rephrased to say something like what is your religion.

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Instead of what is your religion to say something like a two-part question?

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Do you currently have a religion followed by what is your religion?

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And the thinking was that that would give a more accurate result.

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So I actually mentioned this to the national secular lobby.

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A couple of months ago, said you guys should conduct proper poll where

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you question people two different groups with this, with the, the way

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the census has currently structured.

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And with a question in a two-part and see what difference you get.

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And then you'll have proof to say to the IBS that there is a real problem here,

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because they'd been making representations to the Australian bureau of statistics

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who basically ignoring them and saying, we don't see a problem with the question.

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So this is an exercise in trying to provide proof.

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So, so they went to essential pole.

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So where we often in this podcast talk about the essential poll in terms of

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People's opinions about lockdowns and who they're going, gonna vote for and stuff.

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So essentially we're a really reputable organization and they

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did it over two different polls.

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So our roughly 1100 people were questioned in each of the two days.

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And on the first day one group or half of them were asked

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the census type of question.

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And the other half were asked the two-part question.

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And then a week later, or two weeks later, when they did the poll again, they did

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the same thing with another group where they asked them the census type question.

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Then I asked them the two-part question.

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And so then they amalgamated it altogether and they roughly had about

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1100 people answering the census style question and about 1100 people

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answering the two part question, which is a good number of people to have.

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So.

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Let me just see if I can read this a bit better in terms of era effective samples.

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The, the margin of error is 3.1%.

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So a 95% confidence level.

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So a good number to use like proper, proper sample was done.

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So a big question and I'll put it on the screen for those watching the

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live stream is what was the result and looking at the no religion response.

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So when people will ask the current census question, what is your religion?

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Doing it with this poll 41% said no religion, but when asked, do

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you currently have a religion followed by what is your religion?

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Then 52% said that they have no religion.

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So there's an 11% difference.

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Make sense, Joe.

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Yeah.

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I think it is, if you prime people, we know you get a difference

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between how they answer question.

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Yep.

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So it's interesting.

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I saw some of the correspondence between the national secular lobby and

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the Australian bureau of statistics.

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And it's kind of funny where the bureau was kind of saying, we're

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not that interested in what people's religion is as to what they consider

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their religious heritage to be like.

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It's a very funny sort of response from the Australian bureau of statistics about

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what they thought they were looking for.

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So anyway, good job by the national secular lobby to get that done.

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And that'll give him plenty of ammunition over the years to lobby and

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suggest to the statisticians that I should stop asking leading questions.

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What else was in there?

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If you basically then look at a two-part question and look at the

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figures, the most popular religion would be a Catholic, which would be 16%

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and then the next would be Anglicans 8% and then it really drops away.

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Uniting church, 3% Islam, Buddhism Presbyterian Hinduism, 2% Greek

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Orthodox, 1% Baptist, 1%, other 5%.

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So say Chris, so Catholics at 16% only 16% of our population.

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But when you think of all of the Catholics education facilities,

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hospitals, it's amazing.

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Amazing number of institutions that are Catholic, given the

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representation in our community.

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An amazing amount of power given the low representation, but that's how,

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that's how it's turned out for us.

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Unfortunately, what else was in these statistics?

Speaker: 00:18:45

And that it's critically important that we give them taxpayer money

Speaker: 00:18:49

to fund all this infrastructure.

Speaker: 00:18:50

Yes, indeed.

Speaker: 00:18:52

How much housework do you do at Trevor?

Speaker: 00:18:53

How much do housework do I do?

Speaker: 00:18:55

Yeah, I'm from the census question.

Speaker: 00:18:58

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:19:01

Well it asked me for last week and I have to sign my house yet for the

Speaker: 00:19:06

week that it asked, I have to say my household duties were quite low.

Speaker: 00:19:12

I was busy with other things.

Speaker: 00:19:15

It's not difficult.

Speaker: 00:19:17

So you're saying it's not, not representative, but it wasn't a

Speaker: 00:19:22

normal week, but I had to look to say what it was for that week.

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Yeah.

Speaker: 00:19:25

Typically what would I say typically?

Speaker: 00:19:27

I often wash, I would regularly.

Speaker: 00:19:30

Do the washing up stack the dishwasher for example, and unstack

Speaker: 00:19:33

the dishwasher during the day.

Speaker: 00:19:35

And I make all the coffees in this house.

Speaker: 00:19:37

Does that count as coffee making like you're reaching, but yeah,

Speaker: 00:19:46

I used to ha how's this.

Speaker: 00:19:48

I used to have to mow the lawn.

Speaker: 00:19:50

So I was in charge of the lawn and my wife was in charge of the gardening.

Speaker: 00:19:54

And what I did is I managed to convince her that we should rip up

Speaker: 00:19:57

the lawn and replace it with a garden.

Speaker: 00:20:02

I haven't fired up.

Speaker: 00:20:04

It was, you do realize she listens to the podcast.

Speaker: 00:20:15

I only have to go the foot part.

Speaker: 00:20:17

I don't really care about it.

Speaker: 00:20:20

Very good.

Speaker: 00:20:20

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:20:21

At the household duties now, Well, no, sir.

Speaker: 00:20:25

I would usually put my mother's washing on and hang my mother's washing out.

Speaker: 00:20:28

So there you go.

Speaker: 00:20:29

That's something I do do a lot of carriers.

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I put me down to for carer activities as well.

Speaker: 00:20:37

So with taking her shopping, taking her to the doctors, other

Speaker: 00:20:41

things saying we'll be down for that fairly modern, I might think.

Speaker: 00:20:47

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:20:49

Okay, look, I've got enough of an inquisition from justice burns last week.

Speaker: 00:20:52

I don't need one from you.

Speaker: 00:20:53

Sure.

Speaker: 00:20:58

Well, it wasn't, it didn't seem like there was outrage about religion, but it, it

Speaker: 00:21:01

seems to be some outrage around pronouns.

Speaker: 00:21:04

And I was personally a bit mad because the way they'd framed the question

Speaker: 00:21:10

about whether you were on job K-pop or had found other work, like it, wasn't

Speaker: 00:21:14

an opportunity to really describe your situation in the past year.

Speaker: 00:21:18

And I thought considering, you know, the level of insecure work and all

Speaker: 00:21:23

of the, you know, things that have transpired in the past year, that that

Speaker: 00:21:26

was, that was a shame, frankly, right?

Speaker: 00:21:29

Yep.

Speaker: 00:21:30

Yeah.

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The odd one, there was a question asking if you'd been

Speaker: 00:21:33

a member of the defense force.

Speaker: 00:21:36

Oh, and yeah.

Speaker: 00:21:39

And really shouldn't they shouldn't, they have that information.

Speaker: 00:21:42

Shouldn't there be?

Speaker: 00:21:43

Yes.

Speaker: 00:21:44

Shouldn't there be a book somewhere with a name, rank serial number, date of birth.

Speaker: 00:21:48

Couldn't possibly work that out through other means.

Speaker: 00:21:51

If they'd been asking for overseas service, as in people who'd served in

Speaker: 00:21:55

other armies, I could understand that.

Speaker: 00:21:58

I can't remember how it was phrased and it was just assuming that ADF I did it right.

Speaker: 00:22:03

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker: 00:22:04

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:22:04

That's a strange question for, Hmm.

Speaker: 00:22:08

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:22:09

When I migrated, they asked me what military service I'd done as part

Speaker: 00:22:14

of my migration fees or application.

Speaker: 00:22:17

Okay.

Speaker: 00:22:18

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:22:19

Look, maybe the census people had sort of been looking at it at

Speaker: 00:22:23

Afghanistan and thought these guys are responsible for a cock-up there.

Speaker: 00:22:26

They probably can't even keep track of their own members.

Speaker: 00:22:28

We better do it for them.

Speaker: 00:22:29

That could be, it could be what's happening there, I guess, is

Speaker: 00:22:33

that it's around veteran funding.

Speaker: 00:22:35

Okay.

Speaker: 00:22:37

Okay.

Speaker: 00:22:37

19.

Speaker: 00:22:39

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:22:41

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:22:41

But even then that's going to be misleading because my mother was

Speaker: 00:22:44

not, but she gets veteran funding cause she's a widow of an month.

Speaker: 00:22:48

So I might get a really good picture from that.

Speaker: 00:22:51

Hm.

Speaker: 00:22:52

Okay.

Speaker: 00:22:53

Shai, you sent through something about the Victorian government has endorsed,

Speaker: 00:23:01

oh, let's decriminalized prostitution.

Speaker: 00:23:06

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:23:07

So I had a bit of a Gladys moment because of the last podcast I'd been.

Speaker: 00:23:12

I basically did a shout out to this campaign group called

Speaker: 00:23:14

collective shout, who am I thought?

Speaker: 00:23:17

We're quite good at campaigning for an exploitation to women.

Speaker: 00:23:22

But I have to disagree with them on their position.

Speaker: 00:23:24

So they are really angry at the Victorian government for decriminalizing sex

Speaker: 00:23:28

work and have said that basically it's just opening the doors to

Speaker: 00:23:33

more pimping and more problems.

Speaker: 00:23:35

And of course, commodifying a woman's body is, you know, taking us back on.

Speaker: 00:23:44

You're actually disagreeing with them.

Speaker: 00:23:46

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:23:47

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:23:48

So I did an assignment on the, this last semester around

Speaker: 00:23:53

the subject was Davey ants.

Speaker: 00:23:54

And I did determine how David's sex work was.

Speaker: 00:23:58

And while I appreciate that commodifying, a woman's body is like

Speaker: 00:24:03

a pretty backward and unpleasant.

Speaker: 00:24:06

The way I see it is actually decriminalizing sex work is the

Speaker: 00:24:10

simplest way to actually get sex workers, some rights and some agency.

Speaker: 00:24:18

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:24:18

So I just want it to say what God thought I was.

Speaker: 00:24:23

I, yeah, everything that I saw was that sex work is flourishing.

Speaker: 00:24:28

It's moving online.

Speaker: 00:24:29

I think if you took any other issue, issue like voluntary assisted dying

Speaker: 00:24:34

that actually regulating it does provide us with Yeah, options.

Speaker: 00:24:40

It's not the, it's not the ultimate solution.

Speaker: 00:24:43

It's, it's not going to fix the problem, but it gives sex workers the opportunity

Speaker: 00:24:48

to go to the police now and not have to worry about being prosecuted themselves.

Speaker: 00:24:54

Okay.

Speaker: 00:24:54

So let me just explain for the deal listener that I think it was

Speaker: 00:24:58

decriminalized previously in relation to the women as participants in

Speaker: 00:25:02

offering the service, but that it wasn't decriminalized in relation to the

Speaker: 00:25:09

pimps and which is a, really the term for the, for the organizers, I guess.

Speaker: 00:25:16

And so I think the argument was that they were agreeing that, of course it should

Speaker: 00:25:23

be decriminalized for women who are offering the service, but the, I didn't

Speaker: 00:25:28

want to decriminalize for the pimps.

Speaker: 00:25:31

And they were signing that.

Speaker: 00:25:33

And they were referring to what had happened in New Zealand, I think.

Speaker: 00:25:36

And, and they were saying that women were getting treated

Speaker: 00:25:40

worse once the laws changed.

Speaker: 00:25:44

And so they support the Nordic model or the Swedish model, which is where it's

Speaker: 00:25:50

illegal to buy sex, but not to sell sex.

Speaker: 00:25:53

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:25:54

And this, the ACL also support this.

Speaker: 00:25:56

It seems to be a very Christian shaming thing.

Speaker: 00:26:00

And from the countries that have implemented the sex workers say

Speaker: 00:26:04

that as soon as you make it illegal you, yeah, it doesn't matter

Speaker: 00:26:08

whether it's legal for the girls.

Speaker: 00:26:10

It's still a seedy shady activity.

Speaker: 00:26:13

They get surveilled by the police to catch the boat, the guys who are buying it.

Speaker: 00:26:17

And it actually, they get pushed to do risky or work because.

Speaker: 00:26:21

One of these women said when the law changed in a decriminalized,

Speaker: 00:26:25

the, the other participants, she said, I'd never heard someone say

Speaker: 00:26:31

I paid fuel body and I can do what I want until decriminalization.

Speaker: 00:26:36

And she, one of the other their submission to the review was we amplified the voices

Speaker: 00:26:44

of sex trade survivors who had worked both prior to and after decriminalization

Speaker: 00:26:49

was implemented in New Zealand.

Speaker: 00:26:51

These women described worse conditions for prostituted women who had less power to

Speaker: 00:26:56

negotiate, but none of the rights of an employee, they said decriminalizing, the

Speaker: 00:27:00

purchase of sex emboldened, the misogynist men who paid to use them, and that it

Speaker: 00:27:06

increased their sense of entitlement and led to greater violence against.

Speaker: 00:27:12

Now, remember the what are the, what's their name?

Speaker: 00:27:15

Collective shout is run by some very committed Catholics seems

Speaker: 00:27:23

to be a Catholic lobby group.

Speaker: 00:27:25

And we know how they misreported the data.

Speaker: 00:27:32

Yes.

Speaker: 00:27:33

Is that right?

Speaker: 00:27:34

It's run by a bunch of Catholics.

Speaker: 00:27:36

Look up

Speaker: 00:27:40

what it says at the bottom that they're nonpolitical their website and

Speaker: 00:27:43

nonpolitical and non-religious okay.

Speaker: 00:27:46

Well the CEO is definitely a committed Catholic who is all about what was it

Speaker: 00:27:51

right to live for whatever they call themselves false birth, basically sneaky.

Speaker: 00:27:57

Oh yeah.

Speaker: 00:27:58

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:27:59

It seems to be a Catholic the fact that the ACL support

Speaker: 00:28:02

decriminalization, sorry, the Nordic model, the same as these guys do.

Speaker: 00:28:08

And the fact that they slate Fiona pattern as, as being a member of the porn lobby

Speaker: 00:28:15

rather than as a former sex worker.

Speaker: 00:28:17

Yes.

Speaker: 00:28:18

So Fiona pattern who actually introduced the bill knows of, and has many friends

Speaker: 00:28:23

who still are what it's like to.

Speaker: 00:28:27

To do sex work.

Speaker: 00:28:28

That's interesting.

Speaker: 00:28:29

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:28:30

Not his thing.

Speaker: 00:28:31

Isn't it?

Speaker: 00:28:33

They have a guy collective shout not to be trusted.

Speaker: 00:28:36

It's seen.

Speaker: 00:28:39

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:28:40

Cause I just thought like, cause even some of the comments on the thing was

Speaker: 00:28:44

just like, go and go and see what's happening in Germany and Germany's

Speaker: 00:28:48

decriminalize sex work seems fine.

Speaker: 00:28:50

I check the legislation provided by the Victorian government and it, yeah.

Speaker: 00:28:56

It's seems very sensible.

Speaker: 00:28:58

I don't think they're just letting, well, there you go.

Speaker: 00:29:01

Your instincts were right.

Speaker: 00:29:02

Che.

Speaker: 00:29:03

It's saying it's amnesty support decriminalization and a couple

Speaker: 00:29:08

of other major NGOs also support.

Speaker: 00:29:12

Yeah, just guys to show.

Speaker: 00:29:13

When you, when you hear of a lobby group, you need to know who's paying them.

Speaker: 00:29:18

What is the agenda?

Speaker: 00:29:20

Yeah, the problem with the anti pimp laws is people are saying you can't be

Speaker: 00:29:24

in rented accommodation because your landlord might be charged as a pimp

Speaker: 00:29:28

for living off the illegal process.

Speaker: 00:29:30

And girls can't band together collectively.

Speaker: 00:29:34

So I think in Queensland, they can hire a receptionist, but that's it right?

Speaker: 00:29:40

And I think there can be no more than two of them working together.

Speaker: 00:29:44

Otherwise they have to apply for a brothel license.

Speaker: 00:29:47

So there's a whole load of restrictions that make it very difficult.

Speaker: 00:29:52

So Shea, you've handed in this assignment and you've done that.

Speaker: 00:29:56

All right.

Speaker: 00:29:56

Well, if you had your chance, you would have put a little footnote

Speaker: 00:29:58

in about who this group is, but

Speaker: 00:30:08

I didn't have this at hand.

Speaker: 00:30:10

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:30:10

So yeah.

Speaker: 00:30:13

Bronwyn mentioned traffic to people whilst it is.

Speaker: 00:30:16

It definitely does happen.

Speaker: 00:30:19

The vast majority of traffic people are actually traffic Dale

Speaker: 00:30:21

to work on farms and in factories.

Speaker: 00:30:24

Right.

Speaker: 00:30:24

Because despite all the, oh my God, we need to save the traffic to people.

Speaker: 00:30:28

It tends to be a moralistic religious argument.

Speaker: 00:30:32

Because if you actually look at the people who deal with

Speaker: 00:30:35

Trafficked and enslaved people.

Speaker: 00:30:37

The vast majority of it is domestic work.

Speaker: 00:30:40

Quite often families bringing people over from India or China are the two

Speaker: 00:30:46

big places factories and farms, other places where people are mistreated.

Speaker: 00:30:52

And I think it's something like 90% of people are in that.

Speaker: 00:30:55

Hmm.

Speaker: 00:30:56

Interesting.

Speaker: 00:30:57

So there we go.

Speaker: 00:30:57

That was a good one, Joe, to find the background and those

Speaker: 00:31:00

guys let's have, we need to, we couldn't possibly pass by this week.

Speaker: 00:31:04

They are referring to what's happened in Afghanistan and those scenes of the

Speaker: 00:31:10

airplanes, leaving the airport with people, literally hanging on to the,

Speaker: 00:31:16

to the bits and whatever they could on the outside of the plane and then

Speaker: 00:31:20

falling off mid air and plummeting to the ground around people sharing the video.

Speaker: 00:31:26

And it's like, I don't need to see the video.

Speaker: 00:31:28

Thank you very much.

Speaker: 00:31:30

So amazing scenes.

Speaker: 00:31:31

And you know, the thing that strikes me with all of this is nobody's looked at

Speaker: 00:31:38

any of the modern history as to why this country is in the mess it's in to start

Speaker: 00:31:43

with and how it got to this situation.

Speaker: 00:31:46

And you know, why is America well, well, it's, isn't it terrible.

Speaker: 00:31:51

America is leaving and the Taliban again to come in.

Speaker: 00:31:54

Sorry.

Speaker: 00:31:54

And it all went wrong at the Khyber pass, I think.

Speaker: 00:31:57

Right.

Speaker: 00:31:57

Okay.

Speaker: 00:32:01

Whatever right.

Speaker: 00:32:01

Or, oh, sorry, the brush.

Speaker: 00:32:04

And when it owned India was taking over neighboring countries and came

Speaker: 00:32:09

up and tried to invade Afghanistan.

Speaker: 00:32:11

Yes.

Speaker: 00:32:11

And got bogged down back then.

Speaker: 00:32:13

Yes.

Speaker: 00:32:14

And Western incursions into Afghanistan have been going on ever since then.

Speaker: 00:32:19

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:32:20

I mean, I mean, people look at these countries and.

Speaker: 00:32:25

I'll say the Taliban and, and they'll go, what is it that these countries

Speaker: 00:32:28

bunch of savages, like, why can't they just get their act together?

Speaker: 00:32:33

Why are they, why are we bothering the Weiss tail?

Speaker: 00:32:36

You know, military lives over there, we should just let

Speaker: 00:32:39

these people get on with it.

Speaker: 00:32:41

Well, the answer is we should just let them get on with it.

Speaker: 00:32:43

The problem, the reason why they're part of the reason these guys are in

Speaker: 00:32:46

a mess is because of the interference that has gone on by the U S 50, 60 years

Speaker: 00:32:54

ago, that is coming home to roost to die, like the incessant interference,

Speaker: 00:33:01

stopping these countries from actually having the governments that they

Speaker: 00:33:04

wanted to back then is leading to, you know, the cause of the problems now.

Speaker: 00:33:08

So, so just a little recap on some middle Eastern history.

Speaker: 00:33:14

And so . Afghanistan is tied up with Iran in many ways.

Speaker: 00:33:22

And to understand Afghanistan, a little bit of understanding of

Speaker: 00:33:26

Iran is sort of required here.

Speaker: 00:33:27

So back in 1953, Iran had Julia elected Masa Dick, and by all accounts, he was a

Speaker: 00:33:36

decent man who looked at the oil revenue.

Speaker: 00:33:40

The British petroleum was taking out of the country and they were basically paying

Speaker: 00:33:44

a peppercorn rent and taking all of the profits from oil and it was leaving Iran.

Speaker: 00:33:52

And he said, you can't do that.

Speaker: 00:33:54

We've got to renegotiate this contract.

Speaker: 00:33:56

It's just simply not fair.

Speaker: 00:33:58

And even America said to the British, Hey, that's a, of course that's an unfair deal.

Speaker: 00:34:03

You just can't let that continue.

Speaker: 00:34:06

Anyway, the British of course, backed British petroleum and.

Speaker: 00:34:10

Eventually the Americans came around to their point of view.

Speaker: 00:34:14

Can't remember the exact details wide, but essentially they had a CIA

Speaker: 00:34:19

operative called Kermit Roosevelt.

Speaker: 00:34:22

Like it's a great name Kermit, as in Kermit the frog and Roosevelt, as in

Speaker: 00:34:26

the president, isn't really related.

Speaker: 00:34:29

And he single, almost single-handedly engineered the

Speaker: 00:34:33

coup that overthrew Masa Dick.

Speaker: 00:34:35

And they, you know, he hired thugs to walk the streets and he hired

Speaker: 00:34:40

people to do a propaganda campaign.

Speaker: 00:34:42

And the Giulia elected leftish wing government of Masa DEC was overthrown

Speaker: 00:34:49

and in its place was the Shah of Iran.

Speaker: 00:34:53

And what happened with the Shah was that he at times tried to, to sort of

Speaker: 00:35:00

modernize the country to some extent.

Speaker: 00:35:04

But he came up with the problem where he was clashing with the the Islamis.

Speaker: 00:35:09

So the Ayatollah Khamenei was exiled by the Shah for 14 years.

Speaker: 00:35:15

And the Ayatollah basically created this new force in politics, which was Islamic

Speaker: 00:35:22

political activity up until then America only had one enemy and that was communism,

Speaker: 00:35:28

but by interfering in Iran, in refusing to help the left, they, they enabled

Speaker: 00:35:35

what became this Islamic political force.

Speaker: 00:35:38

So that didn't exist without American interference in Iran, in the first place.

Speaker: 00:35:45

And of course there was a revolution and and the Islamist one, and, and

Speaker: 00:35:51

that was a watershed moment where political Islam became a force

Speaker: 00:35:56

for the first time in the world.

Speaker: 00:35:58

So.

Speaker: 00:35:59

So that was back in 1979 that that, that I overthrow happen by the Ayatollah.

Speaker: 00:36:07

And in Afghanistan, it was, you have a similar character in the 1970s.

Speaker: 00:36:13

I'm a Hammad day dude who was kind of a little bit like the shy in

Speaker: 00:36:18

that he was wanting to modernize.

Speaker: 00:36:20

But whereas the shower was a, a I'm in cahoots with the USI.

Speaker: 00:36:25

This Muhammad dyad was more or less in cahoots with the Soviet union.

Speaker: 00:36:29

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:36:29

And he was worried about urban communists and also this growing

Speaker: 00:36:35

Islamist movement in his country.

Speaker: 00:36:37

So he basically started killing people and, and and routing

Speaker: 00:36:42

through different elitist groups.

Speaker: 00:36:44

And the Islam has fled.

Speaker: 00:36:45

And I went to Pakistan where they were welcomed with open arms

Speaker: 00:36:50

and it ended up then there was some communists to Rakhi and.

Speaker: 00:36:54

Who took over.

Speaker: 00:36:56

And they had a thing called the people's democratic party of Afghanistan,

Speaker: 00:37:01

which was a left, you know, communist Soviet sympathizing group, who

Speaker: 00:37:08

specifically were extremely secular.

Speaker: 00:37:11

Like they banned people attending mosque.

Speaker: 00:37:14

They told men they had to shave their beards.

Speaker: 00:37:16

They had you know polo policies about empowering women in education.

Speaker: 00:37:22

You know, when people are looking at Afghanistan to die

Speaker: 00:37:26

and going, ah, it's terrible.

Speaker: 00:37:27

What's going to happen with this Islamist force, the Taliban now, and

Speaker: 00:37:32

what's going to happen to women will.

Speaker: 00:37:34

Why?

Speaker: 00:37:34

Back in the late seventies, there was a group who trying to secularize

Speaker: 00:37:42

the country, but because they were allied with the Soviets, the Americans

Speaker: 00:37:45

wanted nothing to do with them.

Speaker: 00:37:47

Anyway.

Speaker: 00:37:48

What happened was that the Soviets became worried about the guy who was in charge.

Speaker: 00:37:53

I thought he was starting to side up with the USI.

Speaker: 00:37:56

The Soviets executed him, different guy took over and it was the Islamist who

Speaker: 00:38:02

provided the opposition to that sort of Soviet how that had been put in place.

Speaker: 00:38:08

And of course, when the Soviets then entered the country, decide shore up

Speaker: 00:38:12

their man it was the Islamists in the form of the Mujahideen who provided the

Speaker: 00:38:18

the opposition to these Soviet forces.

Speaker: 00:38:21

And of course the USA helped the Islamist.

Speaker: 00:38:27

Would your Hardin and that more jihad Dean kind of morphed into not exactly.

Speaker: 00:38:33

Some of them went into the Taliban and the Taliban was created through

Speaker: 00:38:37

other means, but certainly had a major Hardeen element to it.

Speaker: 00:38:40

So.

Speaker: 00:38:41

Yeah, the USA is, is again, got a big finger in the pie in

Speaker: 00:38:46

terms of, of the creation of the Taliban as a force in the area.

Speaker: 00:38:51

So, you know, arguably, if these countries had just been allowed to

Speaker: 00:38:55

have their left leaning governments and just left alone for a while, okay.

Speaker: 00:39:00

They weren't the nicest of groups and they were killing elites

Speaker: 00:39:02

and doing all sorts of things.

Speaker: 00:39:03

But in the long term scheme of things you wouldn't have created

Speaker: 00:39:07

this extra Islamic political force.

Speaker: 00:39:10

That's ended up being such a big problem for America saying.

Speaker: 00:39:13

So when people look at the Taliban, riding into town and saying, oh,

Speaker: 00:39:19

well the Americans did their best, but they shouldn't be spending any

Speaker: 00:39:21

more men in defending the place.

Speaker: 00:39:23

You just have to remember it's all a consequence of what's happened

Speaker: 00:39:27

over the last 40 or 50 years.

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Well, a lot of American weapons were left leftover indeed.

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And I don't.

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Do you remember the living daylights, James Bond?

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No.

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So he ended up in Afghanistan, helping the majority and against

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the Soviets and spies like us.

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I seem to remember what was also, which was Chevy chase.

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Right?

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John Joel, Joel in the chat room says in Rambo, I forget Rambo.

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Yeah.

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I think I've only ever seen the first one, which of course was set on your soil.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Sorry.

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I've interrupted.

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Sorry, Joe.

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No, no, no.

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But yeah, it was very much a anything against the filthy Soviets.

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Yes.

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So so anyway a lot of the problems in these countries comes about because

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of the interference that meant I couldn't just go through the processes

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they wanted to, when they thought about having a left wing government.

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And if, if the U S had a loud or even helped him forgive heaven forbid at that

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point, then history could have been a lot different, but I was just thinking.

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Sadly insane.

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San of Husayn was also funded by the Americans.

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Noriega was funded by the Americans.

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Noriega was allegedly a CIA bye.

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Yep.

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In a shy in July, under by the Americans, they just allow these thugs

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they'll allow anybody to come in.

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Who's just not slightly left.

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And and then because they don't allow the left to operate them in the

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middle east, we've had this political Islamic group being the only group

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that can provide an opposition.

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And that's what people center around saying.

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So they've only got themselves to blind is the short answer.

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Yeah.

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Okay.

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So that was a bit about Afghanistan.

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We didn't mention previously Shai, what did you think about the labor

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party capitulating on tax reform and.

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The liberals have passed all of these laws that provide tax relief

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for middle and upper income earners.

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People are 200,000 a year in libraries said, well, we're not

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going to change it if we get in.

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Did you have any thoughts about that?

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Yes.

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I I guess part of me was like, oh, and I also think we don't have the

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might to, to sell an alternate view.

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It's not an election losing slash winning type situation.

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In fact, kind of letting this one throw to what's the, thank you.

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I guess what I'm saying is it's two seats.

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We have to, we have to win two seats, maybe three to get a

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majority in federal government.

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We balance, we have to balance Al fights around that.

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I write elbows, but I really hate these guys.

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And that seems to be like the game playing.

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And I'm at a point now where I just kind of have to like, trust the strategy and

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hope they know more about it than me.

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slogans.

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Hey, you know, you just, you know, jobs and growth.

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Yeah.

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So labor needs a three word slogan.

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They just keep repeating over and over whether it makes sense or not.

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And eventually they'll get the votes.

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Yeah.

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So basically that they're going to stay with is what labor can be counted on.

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Has a reputation for being counted on is health and infrastructure.

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And that's what they're going to look at.

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And that's what they're going to sell.

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And people will buy that because they do have, they do have a reputation for that.

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They have the state labor premiers who've done.

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Don, just this provided infrastructure done health.

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So, so it's a vote loser to try and to, to go into the election sign beginning

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to get rid of those concessions.

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And we're going to put them back on the tax brackets are on before it'd be a

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vote loser and we can't afford to risk and I'll let them have something don't

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give them any ammunition, small target.

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So in Australia, make sure you don't make core promises.

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Yes.

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Yep.

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Just non-verbal.

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Yeah, because if you say we are incapable of selling anything therefore even

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try is kind of me admission isn't it.

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But if I've got this article from crikey, which says that if you look at

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live as internal review of its loss at the last election, when shortened law.

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And the review was led by Craig Emison and former south Australian

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premier GI where the role, and for example, it didn't single out negative

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gearing aligned for losing it, found they were let me just see here.

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I'm wondering if this has to do with negative gearing and I

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might've got the wrong one here.

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Yeah.

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Well, here's the argument at what they found in this report?

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Was it wasn't the fact that labor had proposed taxes on

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people that cost them votes.

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It was that labor using the money that had got from the tax cuts or from

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the, the introduction of these texts.

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But that generated a revenue for labor and labor said, we're going

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to use that money in spended on a, B, C, D E F G H I J K items.

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And people looked at the spending and said, you guys are just spending too much.

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You're not you're not fiscally responsible.

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Yes.

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So it wasn't so much that they were taking money away from people in terms of

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taxes or in terms of things like negative gearing, you know, if they were to remove

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negative gearing, it, it was that the money that they got from these proposed

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programs, the spending that they were going to do was what actually cost them

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votes, ironically, according to this.

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So so yeah In the areas where people would be worse off, because that

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would be slugged by the labor taxes, their vote increased in those areas.

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So the people who were kind of subject to it knew it was a good idea.

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So anyway, I'm not a hundred percent convinced that labor shouldn't have

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given it a go and just try to explain it.

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I think labor is not seen as supporting the worker, the

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average worker in the street.

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And that's the problem is the liberals, you know, with all

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the bullshit about, oh yeah.

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W we're supporting you the, the tradies, the hard workers when in fact they

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screw them over every chance they can.

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And I think labor has lost the chances lost the trust.

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Okay.

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So there's another article from Crocky, which this leads what

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you're saying leads onto this, Joe.

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So.

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Like who is a typical labor constituent.

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So employees in the traditional blue collar occupations technicians and tri

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workers, libraries, machinery operators, and drivers, that sort of people, that's

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your typical blue collar occupation.

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So that worker now accounts for about 23% of all workers that can

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pay is two 28% for service workers.

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22% for professionals, 9% for managers, contractors in Iona operators, 16%.

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So the call for a return to blue collar base ignores the demographic realities.

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It focuses attention on a subset of blue collar workers, least likely to support

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progressive politics in Australia and elsewhere support for the left is stronger

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among women than men among young people than among the old among employees than

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among contractors and business owners.

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And among the urban, rather than the rural voters, and this is all

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from the Australian election stuff.

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So it's an interesting relationship between education and income because

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education is correlated with income.

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It's tricky.

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So holding education, constant high income voters are more likely to be

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conserved while income is constant.

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Let me just say that again, higher income voters are more likely to be

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conservative while holding income constant high education is associated

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with the strongest support for the lift.

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Mostly these effects work in opposite directions with income predominating,

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but where they work together, the effects of strong voters with low education.

Speaker: 00:48:11

And high-income thinking small business owners for example, are strongly

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conservative by contrast workers in professional occupations with

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relatively low pay and status support.

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So what does it say about the aspirational blue collar workers

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represented as the labor base?

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It typically classed as mild breadwinners, typically of middle age and older in

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regional areas rather than the inner city they're either self-employed

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or they work in the private sector.

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The word aspirational is code for high incomes in a focus on less

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progressive taxes in every respect.

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These characteristics are those associated with the conservative parties.

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So what kind of worker would you represent would represent the act are

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archetypical member of the labor base?

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The analysis above suggests a young woman in a stereotypically female public

Speaker: 00:49:05

sector, occupation requiring post-school education, but with an income well

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below the average for full-time work.

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So that typical voter would be a gen Zed enrolled nurse

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working in a major city hospital.

Speaker: 00:49:18

That would be a typical labor.

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So I thought that was interesting, this sort of the way that it applies

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between income and education, high income, low education, likely to be

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conservative, lowish income, but high education, very likely to be labor.

Speaker: 00:49:40

And what would you consider inherited wealth?

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Oh, it's to the I don't know, Joe.

Speaker: 00:49:46

I have to think about it, but if you if you do, if you inherited a

Speaker: 00:49:49

lot and you had a low income, you could still be that conservative.

Speaker: 00:49:57

Oh no, no.

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I'm thinking of, sorry.

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Millionaires billionaires, whatever they are.

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Right.

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Son of the Turnbull's for example, is that what you thinking of?

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Like, oh, I was thinking more in terms of mining wealth, right?

Speaker: 00:50:11

The, that you would consider well-educated, but also very rich and

Speaker: 00:50:17

very, very right-leaning in terms of almost libertarian talking about bringing

Speaker: 00:50:24

in skilled workers, cheap labor, almost because it states that business interests.

Speaker: 00:50:32

Absolutely.

Speaker: 00:50:33

Yes.

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So I I'd say, I, I think the biggest left vote of the middle class.

Speaker: 00:50:42

Yes.

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Particularly, according to this, it would be an educated middle-class as opposed

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to the middle-class of a tradie or a small business person, small business.

Speaker: 00:50:55

Yeah.

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Would not be to be more conservative.

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Yep.

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So so yeah, I, I think that's, yeah, I think that's a useful analogy.

Speaker: 00:51:03

The Y it's sort of saying that the well-educated professional people in the

Speaker: 00:51:09

side of law nursing range of teaching, you know, they're on an okay-ish wage,

Speaker: 00:51:15

but they're not particularly wealthy by any means, but they're well educated.

Speaker: 00:51:19

That's you live out of there and your blue collar, regional guy may be running

Speaker: 00:51:24

a small business, less educated might be on a same similar income level,

Speaker: 00:51:29

but Less likely to be conservative.

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So I think the labor party has real issues.

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There's, there's obviously this changes occurred in our politics from the

Speaker: 00:51:38

sixties and seventies as to easily identifying who they're pitching at.

Speaker: 00:51:43

And that was the genius of John Howard in that he managed to grab those tradies

Speaker: 00:51:50

and convinced them that, that he was that, you know, that they shouldn't be

Speaker: 00:51:55

labor, that they were small business people and that they would really be

Speaker: 00:51:59

better off voting for the liberals.

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That was the sort of the turning point in the genius of, of Howard.

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But to be fair, that sort of has happened around the world.

Speaker: 00:52:08

That's not just an Australia, that's, that's a phenomenon around the world.

Speaker: 00:52:12

The us in particular, but union membership has definitely dropped off.

Speaker: 00:52:17

Yes.

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And I think there were a lot of clerical workers who could well be.

Speaker: 00:52:24

Served by a union and they, they just, I don't know unions over here

Speaker: 00:52:29

seem to have a very bad reputation.

Speaker: 00:52:32

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:52:32

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:52:33

Well that leads under the next article as well.

Speaker: 00:52:35

Do you remember the air traffic control?

Speaker: 00:52:36

Where were you when the air traffic control strikes were happening, Joe?

Speaker: 00:52:40

Probably in the UK.

Speaker: 00:52:41

Right.

Speaker: 00:52:42

I might ask you Shay, you probably weren't even 1981.

Speaker: 00:52:45

What were you doing?

Speaker: 00:52:45

Shape 81.

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I was still at primary school.

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Okay.

Speaker: 00:52:51

There you go.

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So I can remember it.

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I was just sort of finishing university and I can actually remember as an

Speaker: 00:52:59

article clock at law firm and one of the lawyers needed to go to

Speaker: 00:53:03

Cannes and because of the strike.

Speaker: 00:53:06

She had to get in some audibly if trip, carrier type airplane, and be

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strapped on, in a Hercules to get up to Cannes because they were running

Speaker: 00:53:15

the flights because of the air traffic control strikes at the time.

Speaker: 00:53:17

So, so it used to be a thing shy that around holiday times the air traffic

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controllers would go on strike and demand pay increases, and they would

Speaker: 00:53:29

always do it around that time because it was when people really wanted to

Speaker: 00:53:33

use them and go away on a holiday.

Speaker: 00:53:35

And, and so they were particularly well known as a well-paid group,

Speaker: 00:53:40

the air traffic controllers.

Speaker: 00:53:43

So I've got a link to an article here that the murder of the middle class in

Speaker: 00:53:47

the U S began 40 years ago this week, which was on the August, the fifth,

Speaker: 00:53:51

1981 when president Ronald Reagan fired 11,345 air traffic controllers

Speaker: 00:54:02

who were on strike at the time.

Speaker: 00:54:03

Can you imagine.

Speaker: 00:54:04

11,345 and sat.

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And they were, you know, like the Australian version,

Speaker: 00:54:12

very militant and strong.

Speaker: 00:54:15

And he borrowed them from ever working again.

Speaker: 00:54:18

And by a few months later, the union in control of them had been had been broken.

Speaker: 00:54:22

De-certified laid in ruins.

Speaker: 00:54:24

And well, bill Clinton lifted Reagan's ban on strikers fewer

Speaker: 00:54:29

than 10% were ever rehired by the federal aviation administration.

Speaker: 00:54:35

So I know in Australia, a very similar thing happened and really most of them

Speaker: 00:54:40

ended up having to work overseas because the Australian government employed a

Speaker: 00:54:44

bunch of overseas air traffic controllers.

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And these guys had to end up going over to Dubai and places

Speaker: 00:54:51

like that to, to get a job.

Speaker: 00:54:52

So that was all 40 years ago.

Speaker: 00:54:55

And this article is saying that was really a pivotal moment in labor relations

Speaker: 00:54:59

around the world that a really strong, powerful union just got crunched.

Speaker: 00:55:05

And so up until that time the previous 30 years productivity in America had grown by

Speaker: 00:55:13

a hundred percent and workers pay during that time had grown by a hundred percent.

Speaker: 00:55:19

But after that time productivity grew four times faster than what the pay has grown.

Speaker: 00:55:25

So the link between productivity and worker pay was broken.

Speaker: 00:55:29

So in terms of strikes, generally in the 30 years prior to that event, there were

Speaker: 00:55:39

between 200 and 400 large scale strikes.

Speaker: 00:55:43

And by the time you got to 2008 that's each year, and by the

Speaker: 00:55:48

time we got to 2017, there was.

Speaker: 00:55:51

So unions and people recognized that they, that the government, if, if a

Speaker: 00:55:56

union like the air traffic controllers could be crunched like that, then

Speaker: 00:56:01

what I did anybody else had, because they really had an advantage there.

Speaker: 00:56:05

So so so yeah, a pivotal moment in labor relations.

Speaker: 00:56:09

And I guess if you can't strike and you can't enforce things, then why be a

Speaker: 00:56:14

member of the union then Joe, like you said, union membership has dropped off.

Speaker: 00:56:18

They game of mates, book talks about the neutering of the unions and

Speaker: 00:56:27

argues that, giving them super what's the membership super component.

Speaker: 00:56:33

No, no, no.

Speaker: 00:56:34

Come on industry, super industry, super giving them control of the industry super

Speaker: 00:56:39

has made them part of the establishment.

Speaker: 00:56:42

Now they're less willing to upset the apple cart, right?

Speaker: 00:56:47

Because it affects their bottom line.

Speaker: 00:56:49

Okay.

Speaker: 00:56:51

Suddenly had their powers whittled away, though.

Speaker: 00:56:54

I got a cat actually strike in Australia, Kenya and you're

Speaker: 00:56:57

protected action is somewhat limited.

Speaker: 00:57:01

I don't know the exact details on striking, but I think you're right.

Speaker: 00:57:04

That it's not as nearly as easy as it used to be.

Speaker: 00:57:08

And of course they used to be like one strike by one group and

Speaker: 00:57:10

then there'll be these sympathy strikes by other groups in support.

Speaker: 00:57:14

And that sort of was banned to a large extent where you couldn't have

Speaker: 00:57:18

a sort of a sympathy strike that, you know, sort of, it wasn't a real

Speaker: 00:57:21

strike mentality at different times.

Speaker: 00:57:23

Like You ever heard of a singer called Frank Sinatra Shea.

Speaker: 00:57:29

It came to Australia and it was just in a bad mood.

Speaker: 00:57:32

And in some, in some press conference, he referred to Australian female

Speaker: 00:57:38

journalists as like hookers and broads or something like that.

Speaker: 00:57:41

And and basically the union movement said, well, until you apologize,

Speaker: 00:57:46

you're not getting on a plane to go to any of your concerts.

Speaker: 00:57:49

And they, and the whole union movement basically forced him into a situation

Speaker: 00:57:54

where he had to negotiate with Bob Hawke and do some sort of apology.

Speaker: 00:57:57

But yeah, they basically the transport workers supported the

Speaker: 00:58:04

journalist union and that sort of thing was quite common in those days.

Speaker: 00:58:08

Sad.

Speaker: 00:58:09

The power has gone out of the system for the worker.

Speaker: 00:58:10

That's for sure.

Speaker: 00:58:12

I remember Maggie and Kinnock.

Speaker: 00:58:16

In parliament trading blows, especially about the minors, verbal

Speaker: 00:58:22

blows, but yeah Maggie basically killed the mining industry in the UK.

Speaker: 00:58:28

Some would say that it was actually a good thing.

Speaker: 00:58:30

Moving, moving away from coal.

Speaker: 00:58:32

She was actually a scientist and she believed in the science of global warming.

Speaker: 00:58:38

Was that, and her reason for cracking down on them though.

Speaker: 00:58:41

I don't know.

Speaker: 00:58:42

That was the reason why but I think it didn't help or was,

Speaker: 00:58:47

was another blow against them.

Speaker: 00:58:51

So I certainly remember the, the end of the seventies, the early eighties,

Speaker: 00:58:55

very much being the conservatives cracking down on the power of the unions.

Speaker: 00:59:00

So anyway, this article makes a good case that it was the Was the firing

Speaker: 00:59:03

of the air traffic control was 5th of August, 1991, nearly 40 years ago.

Speaker: 00:59:06

That basically was now in the coffin for the union movement as a powerful force.

Speaker: 00:59:11

And I think there's solid argument for that, but even in the you

Speaker: 00:59:16

know, in the industry of aviation, there is a history of that, Alan

Speaker: 00:59:18

Joyce grounded the flight as well.

Speaker: 00:59:21

Right now the only people that are holding, holding the Fort

Speaker: 00:59:24

for Quantis workers are unions.

Speaker: 00:59:28

There's still a fight to be had.

Speaker: 00:59:29

Definitely.

Speaker: 00:59:30

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:59:31

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:59:32

I asked will send me a purpose.

Speaker: 00:59:34

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:59:35

So so yeah, so that's that do you watch much of the Olympics?

Speaker: 00:59:39

Oh, Shay's disappeared.

Speaker: 00:59:40

She's I dunno.

Speaker: 00:59:42

She's yeah.

Speaker: 00:59:43

Her internal links to dropped out.

Speaker: 00:59:44

I must've dropped down.

Speaker: 00:59:45

So Charlie, did you watch much of the Olympics or the sports fan?

Speaker: 00:59:49

Right.

Speaker: 00:59:50

Fair enough.

Speaker: 00:59:50

There was some interesting moments because I subscribed to the New York

Speaker: 00:59:53

times the, there was some strange things going on in the New York times

Speaker: 00:59:58

in terms of coverage of the Olympics.

Speaker: 01:00:00

And one of the really strange things was the way they were obsessed with

Speaker: 01:00:05

China and the U S in terms of the metal race and to zoom that in a bit.

Speaker: 01:00:10

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:00:10

No, hang on.

Speaker: 01:00:12

I've done enough.

Speaker: 01:00:13

I can, essentially, in every metal count I've ever seen for Olympic

Speaker: 01:00:19

games, you would always count countries by rank them by the

Speaker: 01:00:24

number of gold medals that they had.

Speaker: 01:00:26

But the New York times insisted on doing an overall metal count

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as what would count, put you in the top number one position.

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So they were putting the U S.

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As, as on top of the metal count with 73 metals, as opposed to China on 69.

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But at that stage, China had 32 gold medals in the USA, only 24.

Speaker: 01:00:51

Like it was just a ridiculous way of, of, of showing the metal count.

Speaker: 01:00:55

And and the other thing that they were doing over there was even when I was doing

Speaker: 01:00:59

a little graph, showing the middles as circles and they would actually make the

Speaker: 01:01:04

Chinese circles smaller so that it didn't look like their lead was as big as it was.

Speaker: 01:01:10

All sorts of strange auntie like just something as simple as the Olympics, anti

Speaker: 01:01:15

China stuff that they were doing, there was a young gymnast and you know, say with

Speaker: 01:01:19

news Corp, it would say China's Hong Chan Kwan who had 14 years old was top of the

Speaker: 01:01:24

competition on Thursday has not cracked a smile despite her impeccable performance.

Speaker: 01:01:30

So this was sort of referring to.

Speaker: 01:01:32

That's sort of the Chinese is just almost robots without emotion.

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And, but meanwhile, you didn't have to look too far and you could find a

Speaker: 01:01:39

lovely photo of her smiling beautifully.

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Like it was just the why they wanted to portray the Chinese

Speaker: 01:01:44

as, as unemotional robots.

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And then also they would say, you know, the same magazine the New York times

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would say the Chinese sports machine, single goal, the most goals at any cost

Speaker: 01:01:58

basically criticizing the Chinese for just being a, a sports machine just

Speaker: 01:02:03

trying to accumulate gold medals then.

Speaker: 01:02:06

But at the same time, they would run an article on Britain.

Speaker: 01:02:09

Britain's huge investment in summer Olympics sports pays off and that was a

Speaker: 01:02:13

positive one because but like the Brits.

Speaker: 01:02:15

So just shameless sort of misrepresentation of China.

Speaker: 01:02:19

Remember whichever one of those.

Speaker: 01:02:23

Seventies, eighties Olympics where the whole Russian team

Speaker: 01:02:26

basically were caught doping.

Speaker: 01:02:30

Yes.

Speaker: 01:02:31

Yeah.

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If you remember the Soviets they had a huge machine to get their teams to

Speaker: 01:02:36

the Olympics and win at all costs.

Speaker: 01:02:40

Yes.

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Because they were all in the army.

Speaker: 01:02:43

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:02:43

Yes, indeed.

Speaker: 01:02:45

Yep.

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So, and, and, you know, obviously cheating, but it's just let's

Speaker: 01:02:50

just kind of help themselves the American price in bagging, China,

Speaker: 01:02:53

even when it came to the Olympics.

Speaker: 01:02:54

So, so that was that article he where gold, giant new Mount corporation.

Speaker: 01:03:02

So big gun, gold miner, exed, one of its most senior executives for

Speaker: 01:03:06

refusing to abide by the company's COVID-19 vaccination policy.

Speaker: 01:03:10

So he was an American guy and an anti-vaxxer and.

Speaker: 01:03:13

He was a very senior executive.

Speaker: 01:03:15

And I said, well, if you're not going to get the VAX nation, then your

Speaker: 01:03:19

set, anybody disagree with that as a policy or SPC did that as well.

Speaker: 01:03:26

Who's SPC the fruit cannery.

Speaker: 01:03:28

Oh, okay.

Speaker: 01:03:29

Yes.

Speaker: 01:03:29

For, well, for all of them.

Speaker: 01:03:32

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:03:32

They, he gives him, yeah.

Speaker: 01:03:34

If you come into the factory, you, I think it's not only production line workers.

Speaker: 01:03:37

I think it was even visitors, contractors.

Speaker: 01:03:39

You need to be vaccinated to come onsite.

Speaker: 01:03:42

Yep.

Speaker: 01:03:43

So that'll be interesting.

Speaker: 01:03:45

Telstra have said they're giving $200 to every employee who gets vaccinated.

Speaker: 01:03:51

Right.

Speaker: 01:03:52

So they've said we're not going to mandate it, but here's some strong encouragement.

Speaker: 01:03:55

Okay.

Speaker: 01:03:55

And what if you've already been vaccinated, right?

Speaker: 01:03:59

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:03:59

As long as you've got a vaccination certificate, they'll give that and they're

Speaker: 01:04:02

keeping it open until the end of December.

Speaker: 01:04:05

Because they said they recognize that there is a shortage

Speaker: 01:04:07

of vaccines at the moment.

Speaker: 01:04:08

Right.

Speaker: 01:04:09

Okay.

Speaker: 01:04:10

And obviously this is what's happening in Europe with people wanting to get into

Speaker: 01:04:13

clubs and festivals and things, having some proof wonder what they can create.

Speaker: 01:04:19

That's actually sort of fraud proof.

Speaker: 01:04:22

Yes.

Speaker: 01:04:24

Short of a, a government website where you could look, somebody

Speaker: 01:04:30

up, see a photograph of them.

Speaker: 01:04:32

The second you have a document on the person's phone, it's four doable.

Speaker: 01:04:37

Yes.

Speaker: 01:04:38

Have you had heard about the forged Cove in check-in app?

Speaker: 01:04:42

Shies Chamie.

Speaker: 01:04:44

Okay.

Speaker: 01:04:45

So for people who don't like the idea of letting the government know where

Speaker: 01:04:49

they've been, they actually able to get this app that looks like the COVID

Speaker: 01:04:54

check-in app, and they will use it as they enter a premise and scan the QR code.

Speaker: 01:05:01

And on the screen, it will come up with the normal, congratulations, shy.

Speaker: 01:05:06

You've checked in at XYZ ed bakery or supermarket or wherever you

Speaker: 01:05:11

happen to be looks exactly like the real thing, but it's a fake app.

Speaker: 01:05:16

So you'll could flash it to anybody there who wanted to check that you had been

Speaker: 01:05:21

doing the right thing, but in fact, none of the data is going to the government.

Speaker: 01:05:26

So that's, what's going on out there in terms of fake checking apps.

Speaker: 01:05:33

Cause they like some of the code on stuff I've been looking at.

Speaker: 01:05:37

They've already had a look at how they're going to get around

Speaker: 01:05:41

the vaccination thing as well.

Speaker: 01:05:44

And it seems pretty amateur to may, but obviously they've

Speaker: 01:05:48

developed their skills since then.

Speaker: 01:05:50

So that's a worry.

Speaker: 01:05:53

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:05:53

So be interesting to see how it happens.

Speaker: 01:05:56

Like in Queensland, we can't even get our driver's license electronically.

Speaker: 01:05:59

I've got to still carry a physical card.

Speaker: 01:06:02

I know in new south Wales is I can do it electronically.

Speaker: 01:06:05

That's the problem is the government hasn't made a law that says it's

Speaker: 01:06:09

illegal to ask for the information.

Speaker: 01:06:13

And I believe the police have actually asked for COVID tracking information.

Speaker: 01:06:18

Yep.

Speaker: 01:06:18

And this is the problem.

Speaker: 01:06:19

If they wanted, if they were being serious about it, if they said this

Speaker: 01:06:23

is purely for health reasons, there's no reason for them not to introduce

Speaker: 01:06:27

a law that makes it illegal for those records to be used for anything else.

Speaker: 01:06:31

And I understand the police always want assistance and your

Speaker: 01:06:37

lives are going to be saved by.

Speaker: 01:06:39

We always draw a balance between the two.

Speaker: 01:06:41

And I think this is one case where we have to say this database is not for mining.

Speaker: 01:06:46

It's purely to be used for public health and nothing else.

Speaker: 01:06:49

And that at least would restore some trust.

Speaker: 01:06:51

Yes.

Speaker: 01:06:52

McGowan did it.

Speaker: 01:06:54

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:06:55

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:06:55

Hey, brought in.

Speaker: 01:06:56

Cause they liked it to the press.

Speaker: 01:06:58

The police used the data for catching a crook and it got late to the presser, a

Speaker: 01:07:02

gown really swiftly just put a new laws to say our lay our life, a health raisins.

Speaker: 01:07:09

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:07:10

I think it's critically important that we do that.

Speaker: 01:07:14

You know, you're not going to assign it to everybody, but I think a lot of

Speaker: 01:07:17

people it's, it's it sends a sign that the government is willing to tolerate it.

Speaker: 01:07:24

And do you remember me talking about sort of, ah, Casual.

Speaker: 01:07:29

Well, part-time casual workers who are on regular shifts being treated as full-time

Speaker: 01:07:35

workers and being entitled to the sort of Menulog tri-fold delivery was a, yeah,

Speaker: 01:07:41

there was the dev deliver route one.

Speaker: 01:07:43

And there's also beans, some mining workers as well.

Speaker: 01:07:47

Who, so basically, if you had an employee who wasn't called a full-time employee,

Speaker: 01:07:53

but basically was given the shot the same shift every week, quite often, Monday to

Speaker: 01:08:00

Friday nine to five, and really treated otherwise like a full-time employee.

Speaker: 01:08:07

Then there was a decision by the full court of the federal court that

Speaker: 01:08:12

said, okay, that sort of employee needs to be treated as a full-time

Speaker: 01:08:17

employee and is therefore entitled to the same SIG PI the same.

Speaker: 01:08:23

Superannuation the same long service leave, et cetera.

Speaker: 01:08:28

And, and this is why I tell people don't, you know, mamas, don't let your babies

Speaker: 01:08:33

grow up to be lawyers because a full court of the federal court says treat them like

Speaker: 01:08:39

a full-time worker, what the guys are getting into that position and not dummy.

Speaker: 01:08:44

It's like, and they've really thought really hard when

Speaker: 01:08:47

they've made the decision.

Speaker: 01:08:49

Then it goes to the high court and the high court overturns.

Speaker: 01:08:51

It says, now you got that wrong.

Speaker: 01:08:52

You've got Lauren.

Speaker: 01:08:53

It was so tough as a lawyer to try and working out with any confidence,

Speaker: 01:08:59

whether you're gonna win or not.

Speaker: 01:09:00

And it's just tough.

Speaker: 01:09:01

Don't do it.

Speaker: 01:09:02

Don't be, don't become a lawyer if you think about it.

Speaker: 01:09:05

I, I think, you know, historically workers had no rights.

Speaker: 01:09:11

And the rights were brought in to protect the workers and then suddenly we've gone.

Speaker: 01:09:15

Well, they're not really a worker.

Speaker: 01:09:17

They're this special class of worker, which gets no rights again.

Speaker: 01:09:20

Yes.

Speaker: 01:09:21

And so what's the point of having rights for any workers.

Speaker: 01:09:27

If now you have this class of workers who have no rights.

Speaker: 01:09:32

Yes.

Speaker: 01:09:33

Can you just, if you can just get around it by saying, are you an independent

Speaker: 01:09:37

contractor or something like that?

Speaker: 01:09:39

So we don't have to abide by all these rules.

Speaker: 01:09:43

It just seems to be a loophole that needs to be closed.

Speaker: 01:09:45

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:09:46

So anyway, labor, industrial relations, spokesman, tiny Berg.

Speaker: 01:09:50

So the judgment's effect was limited.

Speaker: 01:09:51

As the government had teamed up with one nation to pass changes that

Speaker: 01:09:55

extinguished the rights of casual workers.

Speaker: 01:09:59

The good news shy is that alive, a government will actually do something.

Speaker: 01:10:04

It seems it will overturn the government scheme, ending the roads and

Speaker: 01:10:08

restoring rights to work as according to Tony Burke, there's something,

Speaker: 01:10:13

but it weren't scared on that one.

Speaker: 01:10:14

They were happy to go to an election with that.

Speaker: 01:10:16

Not scared off secure works, secure work.

Speaker: 01:10:19

That's all about and good for them.

Speaker: 01:10:21

Cause can I make it just completely baseless assertion?

Speaker: 01:10:25

It does seem to be a patent of winning days, industrial relation court

Speaker: 01:10:28

cases, and then losing them on appeal.

Speaker: 01:10:30

It happened at Quantas with the mismanagement of job caper.

Speaker: 01:10:34

I went through for other examples, but ran out of time.

Speaker: 01:10:38

And I just don't think like between the fair work commission and some of the court

Speaker: 01:10:42

systems that they really have any taste.

Speaker: 01:10:46

Yep.

Speaker: 01:10:46

We have made wage theft illegal here in Queensland and I, in my line of work,

Speaker: 01:10:51

I regularly get follow-up calls around young workers who are still waiting

Speaker: 01:10:55

on orders for their employers to pay them back in excess of like 18 grand.

Speaker: 01:11:01

And that's from two years ago.

Speaker: 01:11:03

So we have a wage theft law, but we still haven't worked out how

Speaker: 01:11:06

to enforce it at work commission.

Speaker: 01:11:09

In the meantime is just like, when are you 10 grand?

Speaker: 01:11:13

If you're 21, actually.

Speaker: 01:11:14

And granted is a huge amount of money.

Speaker: 01:11:17

You can buy a lot of avocado on toast.

Speaker: 01:11:24

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:11:25

So anyway, that's my little rant.

Speaker: 01:11:29

This is one of my things I get most ragey a bit.

Speaker: 01:11:32

Yep.

Speaker: 01:11:32

Good point in the chat room.

Speaker: 01:11:34

I think stopping them, standing outside with a sandwich board going this person

Speaker: 01:11:39

was found to have stolen 18,000 in wages.

Speaker: 01:11:44

Well a lot of these businesses banned them.

Speaker: 01:11:47

So there's a few news reports of people who are seriously pissed off and didn't

Speaker: 01:11:51

get as good outcome or consequently are still Whiting, try to try to shame them.

Speaker: 01:11:57

But when you're going in individually and not with your union there is no going into

Speaker: 01:12:03

the shop, just standing outside the shop.

Speaker: 01:12:06

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:12:06

Well I might suggest that next time, but yeah, I don't think you would.

Speaker: 01:12:11

Well, the customer's going, oh, oh, I don't know that I want to support

Speaker: 01:12:15

a business that does that to their workers, but if you've got it wrong,

Speaker: 01:12:18

then you're in, you've got a problem.

Speaker: 01:12:21

I think if, I think if a tribunal has found that they owe you the weight.

Speaker: 01:12:27

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:12:28

And then a high court says actually they don't, meanwhile, you'd been

Speaker: 01:12:30

out the shop sort of defining them, then you've got a problem.

Speaker: 01:12:33

So that's one of the problems.

Speaker: 01:12:36

Hey, in the chat room, just scrolling back as we're getting towards the

Speaker: 01:12:38

end Bronwyn said, how about the waterfront dispute in the nineties?

Speaker: 01:12:42

That was an example of business effectively attempting to replace

Speaker: 01:12:46

its unionized workforce with a, non-union not unionized one.

Speaker: 01:12:51

That's true.

Speaker: 01:12:52

Patrick stevedoring.

Speaker: 01:12:53

Back in the day, I'm just thinking fleet street and then move out to whopping.

Speaker: 01:12:59

Was it London?

Speaker: 01:13:00

Yes.

Speaker: 01:13:01

Essentially built up factory in secret, which is more or

Speaker: 01:13:05

less almost fully automated.

Speaker: 01:13:08

Yes.

Speaker: 01:13:09

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:13:09

And the same with the warfees really, it was about changing to a system which

Speaker: 01:13:15

used those giant cranes and less in even more automated crimes, I think.

Speaker: 01:13:20

And a lot less people involved.

Speaker: 01:13:22

So.

Speaker: 01:13:22

So that was an example as well of unions losing their power.

Speaker: 01:13:26

What else do we got here?

Speaker: 01:13:27

Can't get through all the comments, but thank you for your

Speaker: 01:13:30

comments in the chat room guys.

Speaker: 01:13:32

I reckon that might sort of do us shy.

Speaker: 01:13:35

You'll be in danger of the shark tank if Landon hard bottom finds out that we've

Speaker: 01:13:39

finished nine minutes early, but I think it can be excused given my workload.

Speaker: 01:13:44

Now next week, COVID lockdowns permitting.

Speaker: 01:13:48

I'm going to be in Cairns in.

Speaker: 01:13:49

So if I've managed to pre-record something, I will

Speaker: 01:13:53

upload it if there's there.

Speaker: 01:13:55

But there's a good chance.

Speaker: 01:13:56

There won't be anything.

Speaker: 01:13:57

I don't know, D listener.

Speaker: 01:13:58

So I don't know if there'll be a show next week, but the definitely

Speaker: 01:14:01

be something the week after.

Speaker: 01:14:02

So yeah, not sure.

Speaker: 01:14:04

If you want us to talk about something sent through some suggestions actually

Speaker: 01:14:07

next week I'm supposed to be doing would, it would be normally an interview

Speaker: 01:14:10

or a book view type thing anyway.

Speaker: 01:14:12

So you guys will see in two weeks time, whatever happens next week and dear

Speaker: 01:14:16

listener, if if there's not a show next week, it's just because I'm relaxing

Speaker: 01:14:20

on a beach somewhere off cans and Mrs.

Speaker: 01:14:23

Fister and I are enjoying life.

Speaker: 01:14:25

Isn't it?

Speaker: 01:14:31

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:14:31

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:14:31

Lockdowns permitting.

Speaker: 01:14:33

All right.

Speaker: 01:14:33

Well, thank you in the chat room.

Speaker: 01:14:34

Thank you for the people who sent support about ER, strange

Speaker: 01:14:37

things that I'd been up to lately.

Speaker: 01:14:39

We won't know a result on that for a few weeks, most likely.

Speaker: 01:14:43

And the whole satanic thing.

Speaker: 01:14:44

We'll see how much notice do you get when he's ready?

Speaker: 01:14:47

Reveal the judgment.

Speaker: 01:14:49

I have no idea.

Speaker: 01:14:50

Like so many of these things about this whole thing, I have no idea.

Speaker: 01:14:53

So I actually sent them an email today to the associates saying, I'm not

Speaker: 01:14:57

going to be around during this period.

Speaker: 01:14:59

If a decision comes out and you're expecting me there, I'm sorry.

Speaker: 01:15:02

I won't be there.

Speaker: 01:15:03

I'm apologizing in advance.

Speaker: 01:15:04

So I don't know.

Speaker: 01:15:06

It depends because if, for example, he decides in our favor on the

Speaker: 01:15:12

declaration, then his judgment will be relatively short and easy.

Speaker: 01:15:19

But if he decides against us, then he's got to deal with a whole bunch

Speaker: 01:15:23

of judicial review questions, which will be quite complicated and lengthy.

Speaker: 01:15:28

So so yeah, it just, who knows, who knows?

Speaker: 01:15:32

I don't know.

Speaker: 01:15:33

I've sort of like, I, it was not, how long is it going to take him, but just,

Speaker: 01:15:37

are they going to warn you two days in advance that I don't even know.

Speaker: 01:15:42

Okay.

Speaker: 01:15:43

Yeah.

Speaker: 01:15:43

So I just I'll let you know, as soon as I know something.

Speaker: 01:15:48

Okay.

Speaker: 01:15:49

Delist now we're out of here.

Speaker: 01:15:50

Thanks in the chat room for watching and maybe next week, if

Speaker: 01:15:54

not, definitely two weeks time.

Speaker: 01:15:56

Talk to you then.

Speaker: 01:15:56

Bye for now.

Speaker: 01:15:58

Bye.

Speaker: 01:15:59

That is a good night from him.