Episode 428 - News and Ideas that you won’t hear anywhere else.

Sir David: 00:00:00

Suburban Eastern Australia, an environment that has, over

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time, evolved some extraordinarily unique groups of homosapiens.

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But today, we observe a small tribe, akin to a group of meerkats, that

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gather together atop a small mound to watch, question, and discuss the

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current events of their city, their country, and their world at large.

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Let's listen keenly and observe this group fondly known as the

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Iron Fist and the Velvet Glove.

Trev: 00:00:37

Welcome back to your listener, episode 428, feeling very fresh

Trev: 00:00:41

and invigorated after a break.

Trev: 00:00:44

This is our first podcast for two weeks.

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I'm Trevor, aka The Iron Fist, with me as always, Joe, the tech guy.

Trev: 00:00:51

How are you, Joe?

Joe: 00:00:52

Good.

Trev: 00:00:53

Evening all.

Trev: 00:00:54

Yes.

Trev: 00:00:55

Scott is not with us.

Trev: 00:00:56

No, it's not because his private school employer has found out his, his night job.

Trev: 00:01:03

But rather, you might think that regional Queensland doesn't have much of a

Trev: 00:01:07

social scene, but apparently Scott does, and he's always got people visiting,

Trev: 00:01:11

particularly on Monday nights, and he's got that tonight, so he's entertaining

Trev: 00:01:14

and doing other things, and isn't on board, but presumably will be back

Trev: 00:01:18

next week, unless somebody else visits and entertains, so it's just Joe and

Trev: 00:01:21

myself, and there's people in the chat room already, hello Watley, and hello

Trev: 00:01:25

John in the chat room, so, Yes, if you've got comments to make, make them

Trev: 00:01:30

and we will try to incorporate them.

Trev: 00:01:33

Well, what is on the agenda tonight?

Trev: 00:01:36

A lot of topics.

Trev: 00:01:39

I finally managed to watch the Yanis Varoufakis documentary.

Trev: 00:01:42

We'll talk about that.

Trev: 00:01:44

we'll talk about RFK a little bit.

Trev: 00:01:46

A little bit about Sam Harris.

Trev: 00:01:48

a Gaza update.

Trev: 00:01:50

Because it's just so terrible over there that it's almost a crime

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not to mention what is going on.

Trev: 00:01:56

An update, a bit about David McBride, the whistleblower, a bit about, the

Trev: 00:02:01

budget briefly, how we're all being screwed by the GST carve up, except

Trev: 00:02:06

if you're in Western Australia.

Trev: 00:02:08

oh, Ukraine, China, world sort of geopolitics type stuff.

Trev: 00:02:15

Trump, and all sorts of things along those lines.

Trev: 00:02:18

So, so yeah, that's on the agenda.

Trev: 00:02:22

But first up, What are we grateful for?

Trev: 00:02:24

This is copying unashamedly from the PEP podcast, and

Trev: 00:02:29

it's just a nice way to start.

Trev: 00:02:30

Dear listener, if you don't want to listen to our, carryings on about

Trev: 00:02:33

our private lives or inconsequential matters, look at your app.

Trev: 00:02:38

There are timestamps and chapters you can scoot around and fast

Trev: 00:02:41

forward to the bits that might interest you if this bit doesn't.

Trev: 00:02:44

But, Joe, I was in Sydney for a week.

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And I'm grateful for, A, Sydney Public Transport, particularly the trains, and

Trev: 00:02:55

B, the Opal app, which is a fantastic little app that you can just say, I'm

Trev: 00:03:00

at this place and I want to go to this place, and it tells you what buses, what

Trev: 00:03:04

trains, what platform you'll arrive on, what platform you need to change to.

Trev: 00:03:08

Makes it very easy, stress free travel.

Joe: 00:03:12

Transport for London have something similar.

Joe: 00:03:16

Yes.

Joe: 00:03:17

And there's a Brisbane Translang app.

Joe: 00:03:20

Yeah.

Joe: 00:03:21

Not as quiet as it was.

Trev: 00:03:23

Not as good, I don't think.

Trev: 00:03:24

I had a quick look, and, you know, there's lots of advantages to living in the leafy,

Trev: 00:03:32

upper middle class western suburbs of Brisbane, but one disadvantage is there's

Trev: 00:03:36

no train out here, so it's all bus.

Trev: 00:03:38

And, you just get caught in the traffic.

Trev: 00:03:40

So, anyway, I managed to avoid all the traffic in my day to day

Trev: 00:03:44

life, so I'm grateful for that.

Trev: 00:03:46

Grateful for the public transport in Sydney.

Trev: 00:03:49

The view from the Circular Quay train station, looking out to the Sydney

Trev: 00:03:53

Harbour Bridge, on a beautiful day, blue sky, it's a hell of a view.

Trev: 00:03:58

Good public transport experience I had in Sydney.

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And what else?

Trev: 00:04:02

There's one other thing.

Trev: 00:04:02

And the Manly Ferry.

Trev: 00:04:04

I'm grateful for the Manly Ferry.

Trev: 00:04:05

Love taking that across to Manly.

Trev: 00:04:09

Going to a little pub I know on the other side and having fish and chips.

Trev: 00:04:13

It's the little things in life, Joe.

Trev: 00:04:16

You grateful?

Trev: 00:04:17

You grateful for anything?

Joe: 00:04:20

I think the Martyr IBD clinic.

Joe: 00:04:23

Ah, okay.

Joe: 00:04:24

What have they done for you lately?

Joe: 00:04:26

I was due a script and the appointment system was wrong.

Joe: 00:04:32

Basically, I was going to see them the day after my injection was due.

Joe: 00:04:36

So I emailed them and had a telephone appointment the following week.

Joe: 00:04:42

So everything is Underway and all sorted out.

Trev: 00:04:47

Hmm.

Trev: 00:04:48

This is the only podcast, dear listener, with where both the co-hosts suffer

Trev: 00:04:51

from Crohn's Disease and the podcast is nothing about Crohn's Disease.

Trev: 00:04:55

So there you go.

Trev: 00:04:56

Yeah.

Trev: 00:04:57

Alright.

Trev: 00:04:58

John asks if it's a three hour pod tonight, it might be John,

Trev: 00:05:02

given the list of topics.

Trev: 00:05:04

It's quite possible, and we're not constrained by Scott

Trev: 00:05:08

toddling off to bed early, so.

Trev: 00:05:11

Joe, you going to be up?

Trev: 00:05:13

Got any constraints?

Trev: 00:05:15

Got plenty of coke there?

Joe: 00:05:16

I was going to limit on the amount of rum I've got.

Joe: 00:05:20

Okay.

Trev: 00:05:21

Yeah, all right.

Trev: 00:05:22

Well, let's, I'll catch up on a few things.

Trev: 00:05:26

So, I've been speaking in previous weeks about the documentary about Janus

Trev: 00:05:30

Furufakis called In the Eye of the Storm.

Trev: 00:05:34

And big shout out to Steve who sent me a 30 donation to

Trev: 00:05:39

cover the cost of buying it.

Trev: 00:05:40

And Steve, I went and bought it and I enjoyed every minute of it.

Trev: 00:05:45

It was fantastic, You come away from it, what a man, I reckon, he's an

Trev: 00:05:49

ubermensch, a Yannis, very, very, very intelligent, very well spoken, a good

Trev: 00:05:56

way of speaking clearly, emphatically, amazing detail of economics, but then

Trev: 00:06:02

will mix in, sort of, Greek mythology stories and anecdotes at the same time.

Trev: 00:06:08

A super engaging guy to listen to.

Trev: 00:06:11

Really good documentary about his time initially in the, as a Greek

Trev: 00:06:15

foreign minister and his dealings with the German banks and, and how he was

Trev: 00:06:20

just gutted when his Prime Minister?

Trev: 00:06:23

President?

Joe: 00:06:26

Prime Minister, I think.

Trev: 00:06:27

Yeah, caved in.

Trev: 00:06:29

caved into the demands of the German banks and then his adventures as he

Trev: 00:06:34

then started, an alternative sort of political movement in Germany.

Joe: 00:06:37

All

Trev: 00:06:37

very interesting, highly recommend it if you are inclined.

Joe: 00:06:41

Also interesting listening about his father.

Trev: 00:06:44

Yes.

Trev: 00:06:45

That was interesting.

Trev: 00:06:46

His father was a, a rebellious character who was imprisoned under a

Trev: 00:06:52

fascist Greek government and tortured.

Trev: 00:06:56

And all he had to do was renounce communism.

Trev: 00:07:00

And even the communists were telling him, just renounce it and get out of there.

Trev: 00:07:05

But he refused and, was tortured some more.

Trev: 00:07:09

Super tough, resilient character, his father.

Joe: 00:07:13

But, but also the comment that he said, even if our side had won, so the

Joe: 00:07:19

communists, it would have, he still have been in that concentration camp

Joe: 00:07:25

just with different set of guards.

Trev: 00:07:26

Yes.

Trev: 00:07:28

Yeah.

Joe: 00:07:29

Because he refused to toe the party line.

Trev: 00:07:32

Yes.

Trev: 00:07:34

So, with that sort of upbringing.

Trev: 00:07:38

Yeah, an amazing guy, amazing story.

Joe: 00:07:40

And he said, you know, with the whole negotiation against the Troika,

Joe: 00:07:46

so the IMF, the World Bank and the Eurobank, he said, what pressure was I

Joe: 00:07:52

under compared to what my father was?

Joe: 00:07:54

Yes.

Joe: 00:07:56

Yes.

Joe: 00:07:57

He said, yes, it was stressful, but all I had to do was think, well, at

Joe: 00:08:00

least I'm not in a concentration camp.

Joe: 00:08:01

Yeah.

Trev: 00:08:02

Yeah.

Trev: 00:08:03

Yeah, really good.

Trev: 00:08:05

in the chat room, Watley's grateful for his Donald Trump toilet paper.

Trev: 00:08:09

Get on your Watley, use it.

Trev: 00:08:12

Sparingly, so it lasts.

Joe: 00:08:14

I would have thought it'd be fairly thin skinned, and you'd end

Joe: 00:08:18

up getting smears on your hands.

Trev: 00:08:20

Yeah, if it was truly Donald Trump toilet paper, it would be quite

Trev: 00:08:24

defective and unusable, wouldn't it?

Trev: 00:08:26

That's true.

Trev: 00:08:27

Yeah, true.

Trev: 00:08:28

that's good.

Trev: 00:08:29

Okay.

Trev: 00:08:30

back to my list.

Trev: 00:08:31

What else have I got here?

Trev: 00:08:32

got a lovely message from Patron Paige, at the end of it, Said,

Trev: 00:08:37

thanks for the, grateful section.

Trev: 00:08:40

She likes that.

Trev: 00:08:41

thank you for persisting with the Iron Fist and Velvet Glove.

Trev: 00:08:43

You provide much needed light in the gloom.

Trev: 00:08:46

Thank you, Paige.

Trev: 00:08:47

I really appreciate that comment.

Trev: 00:08:49

And earlier on in it, though, she said that, she heard that I'm not

Trev: 00:08:52

much of a fan of, Robert Kennedy Jr.

Trev: 00:08:57

And she wasn't sure about him, but she Watched a video about him and

Trev: 00:09:04

thinks that perhaps everything else might be propaganda and maybe he's

Trev: 00:09:08

been unfairly branded as a crazy and the video kind of swayed her to

Trev: 00:09:15

perhaps be a bit more Pro RFK Jr.

Trev: 00:09:19

But, Well, I watched the video page.

Trev: 00:09:22

I mean, it was produced by his supporters.

Trev: 00:09:25

So, of course it's going to be flattering of him.

Trev: 00:09:30

and also, he's a slippery character in that he changes his message

Trev: 00:09:35

depending on the audience.

Trev: 00:09:37

So, he goes on podcasts and tells people what they want

Trev: 00:09:41

to hear depending where he is.

Trev: 00:09:42

So, And I would highly recommend to you to, go to the Sam Harris podcast,

Trev: 00:09:48

which is, Making Sense, episode 325, a few thoughts about RFK Jr.

Trev: 00:09:54

And I think he gives a pretty good expose of RFK Jr.

Trev: 00:09:59

So what are your thoughts, Joe, on, on RFK Jr.

Trev: 00:10:04

as he,

Joe: 00:10:04

I've been a member of the scientific sceptics for quite

Joe: 00:10:08

a while and long before COVID.

Joe: 00:10:10

Great.

Joe: 00:10:11

We were aware of him.

Joe: 00:10:13

He's, he was an environmental lawyer.

Joe: 00:10:16

He, I think he still is, but, he'd made a name for himself, doing a lot,

Joe: 00:10:22

clean water, clean air in the States.

Joe: 00:10:24

Hmm.

Joe: 00:10:25

And then got involved in the misinformation around vaccines.

Joe: 00:10:31

Yep.

Joe: 00:10:31

And has been spreading lies, basically, around vaccines for 15, 20 years.

Trev: 00:10:39

Particularly about

Joe: 00:10:40

mercury in some things.

Joe: 00:10:41

thimerosal.

Joe: 00:10:42

Right.

Joe: 00:10:43

So, if you remember any of your high school, chemistry, No.

Joe: 00:10:49

Okay.

Joe: 00:10:50

Well, you remember salt is sodium chloride.

Trev: 00:10:52

Yes.

Joe: 00:10:54

Okay, so.

Joe: 00:10:54

NaCl.

Joe: 00:10:55

Salt is chlorine.

Joe: 00:10:56

Yes, yes.

Joe: 00:10:56

So you're putting chlorine in your food.

Joe: 00:10:59

Yes.

Joe: 00:11:00

Thimerosal contains mercury in the same way that salt contains chlorine.

Joe: 00:11:04

Right.

Trev: 00:11:04

Right.

Trev: 00:11:05

Right.

Joe: 00:11:06

So it's a component, but it's harmless in that form.

Joe: 00:11:11

and so, he kept on saying that thimerosal was in vaccines, which it

Joe: 00:11:17

was taken out because of concerns.

Joe: 00:11:20

Not because there were any valid concerns, but to allay people's fears.

Joe: 00:11:26

Mm.

Joe: 00:11:27

historically, it was in multi dose vaccines.

Joe: 00:11:30

because it's a preservative.

Joe: 00:11:32

And so if you're injecting multiple people, you've broken the seal.

Joe: 00:11:35

There's no guarantees that it wouldn't go off between injections.

Joe: 00:11:40

with single dose vaccines, it was taken out.

Joe: 00:11:42

So it's in none of the children's vaccines, but he

Joe: 00:11:45

has been saying that it is in.

Joe: 00:11:47

Yes.

Joe: 00:11:47

And the fear was that this was causing autism.

Joe: 00:11:50

Yes.

Joe: 00:11:51

So they pulled it out and strangely enough, no change in autism.

Trev: 00:11:55

Yeah.

Trev: 00:11:56

And, the Sam Harris podcast gets quite specific about what he says and

Trev: 00:12:01

when and how it's just plainly wrong.

Trev: 00:12:04

So,

Joe: 00:12:05

At most of the point, he's been told it's been wrong, by

Joe: 00:12:09

people who know considerably more and he doesn't want to listen.

Joe: 00:12:12

Mm.

Trev: 00:12:14

But, he's running for president, he's going to get some

Trev: 00:12:16

votes, and according to the latest PEP podcast, it seems like his

Trev: 00:12:21

running will be more damaging for Biden than it will be for Trump.

Trev: 00:12:25

And also there were other polls, a recent New York Times poll or

Trev: 00:12:29

something like that which, It was all bad, a lot of bad news for Biden.

Trev: 00:12:32

So it's increasingly looking like Trump is going to make it.

Trev: 00:12:38

My goodness me.

Trev: 00:12:40

We're going to coast through to episode 500.

Trev: 00:12:43

If that's the coast, we're going to have so much, it's probably

Trev: 00:12:46

going to be American focused, but, it's a bit like when

Joe: 00:12:49

he's said what he's going to do when he gets back in.

Trev: 00:12:54

Yes, which parts in particular are you thinking of?

Joe: 00:12:56

Most specifically he said he's going to take vengeance on everyone.

Joe: 00:12:59

Right, yep.

Trev: 00:13:02

Yeah,

Joe: 00:13:03

so,

Trev: 00:13:05

ah, yes, there'll be no shortage of material.

Trev: 00:13:08

Just, if you, if you are listening to Sam Harris podcast though, he, he's

Trev: 00:13:12

done one recently in relation to Gaza and the genocide that's going on there.

Trev: 00:13:20

And, He strikes me as completely deluded about it.

Trev: 00:13:25

he's very pro Israel.

Trev: 00:13:27

He really doesn't refer to the Palestinians as Palestinians.

Trev: 00:13:31

He just calls them Hamas.

Trev: 00:13:32

And there's almost no recognition that These thousands of kids cannot

Trev: 00:13:40

be Hamas because they're just kids and, I just think he's in

Trev: 00:13:45

a bubble of his own on that one.

Trev: 00:13:48

And while normally, as sort of one of the modern day gurus, Sam Harris

Trev: 00:13:54

has been pretty good on most things, I think he's terrible on Gaza.

Trev: 00:13:58

So Have a listen to that episode and see what you think about it.

Trev: 00:14:03

But,

Joe: 00:14:03

I've been listening to the podcast that goes along

Joe: 00:14:06

with the Yanis Varoufakis show.

Joe: 00:14:09

and there's an episode of Gabor Marti and Yanis talking about, Palestine.

Joe: 00:14:16

Yes.

Joe: 00:14:17

And it was interesting, Yanis is saying that, he thinks the Holocaust

Joe: 00:14:21

is different, not necessarily in human cost, but the attention to detail, that

Joe: 00:14:31

this was about wiping out a people, whereas all the other genocides have

Joe: 00:14:37

much mean, much more been about, land or resources or Whereas the Holocaust

Joe: 00:14:44

was very much focused on a, on a population, and it didn't matter where

Joe: 00:14:48

they were, they just wanted to kill them.

Trev: 00:14:50

Right.

Trev: 00:14:51

Yes.

Trev: 00:14:52

Okay.

Trev: 00:14:53

Well, that's in a distinction.

Joe: 00:14:54

Yep.

Trev: 00:14:55

That would be the, Eye of the Storm podcast.

Trev: 00:14:58

So, there's another one to add to your list, dear listener.

Trev: 00:15:01

I

Joe: 00:15:01

have to say, I've not enjoyed it as much as the, documentary.

Trev: 00:15:05

Hmm.

Joe: 00:15:06

True.

Trev: 00:15:08

But anyway, it's it's all there.

Trev: 00:15:10

So that was Sam Harris Joe Remember we had the terrible stabbing in Bondi,

Trev: 00:15:19

but then there was that stabbing of the of the Of The Well, is he a shay?

Trev: 00:15:30

No, he's not a shay, he's just a, what was he, like a Greek Orthodox?

Trev: 00:15:33

Yeah, the priest.

Joe: 00:15:34

he wasn't Orthodox, he was Maronite?

Trev: 00:15:39

Yes, like that.

Trev: 00:15:42

So Apparently there's a story in the Sydney Morning Herald which, in

Trev: 00:15:47

summary, says that, that priest has been accused of sexually assaulting

Trev: 00:15:52

a vulnerable young woman in 2014.

Trev: 00:15:56

And, he's the director of the breakaway church that happened

Trev: 00:15:59

to purchase 12 million dollars worth of property last year alone.

Trev: 00:16:02

So, so there you go.

Trev: 00:16:04

yeah, same old story.

Joe: 00:16:07

Yeah, absolutely.

Joe: 00:16:08

The judge had said that he'd acted in a way that wasn't

Joe: 00:16:16

fitting for a priest, I think.

Trev: 00:16:19

He doesn't know enough priests, this judge.

Trev: 00:16:21

It's perfect, it's perfectly in line with with common priestly behaviour from what

Trev: 00:16:26

we've observed over our 430 episodes, Joe.

Trev: 00:16:29

Well, yeah, yeah, that's the ideal of, of it, yeah.

Trev: 00:16:35

Yeah, and Joe, last week with Scott we were talking about whether Netanyahu was

Trev: 00:16:44

popular or not and did a quick Google, just grabbed a paragraph from the Times

Trev: 00:16:48

of Israel saying just because Israelis back the overarching goals Netanyahu has

Trev: 00:16:54

set in Gaza doesn't mean they back him.

Trev: 00:16:56

Netanyahu's approval rating in Israel has plummeted and polls have consistently

Trev: 00:17:00

shown That if early elections were to be held, his party would lose seats in the

Trev: 00:17:05

Knesset and his coalition would be soundly defeated according to the times of Israel.

Trev: 00:17:11

So I think that's the story there.

Trev: 00:17:15

But

Joe: 00:17:15

he's been Prime Minister for an awfully long time.

Trev: 00:17:18

Yeah.

Trev: 00:17:19

Yep.

Trev: 00:17:20

Feels like it.

Trev: 00:17:22

Another podcast to recommend to you, dear listener, is I find The Guardian

Trev: 00:17:26

disappointing these days on a lot of fronts, very lightweight and incorrect

Trev: 00:17:31

on a lot of things, and their treatment of Julian Assange appalling, but

Trev: 00:17:36

occasionally they come out with some good stuff, and their podcast called

Trev: 00:17:40

Full Story by The Guardian, our latest episode has two Australian doctors.

Trev: 00:17:48

talking about their experience working in Gaza.

Trev: 00:17:52

So they went over and worked for a couple of weeks in, you know, one of

Trev: 00:17:58

the hospitals and just the chaos and just, just the appalling conditions

Trev: 00:18:05

that they witnessed, worth listening to.

Trev: 00:18:07

These are things where we just have to stop averting our eyes

Trev: 00:18:11

and ears and have to actually listen to what's going on there.

Trev: 00:18:15

And, Just gut wrenching, what's going over there, and so yeah, two Australian

Trev: 00:18:19

doctors, have a listen to what they say about their experience in Gaza.

Trev: 00:18:25

That's called Full Story, that podcast.

Trev: 00:18:28

now, also from The Guardian, printed version, Joe, we've got this crazy

Trev: 00:18:33

situation where, instead of trucks rolling in by road, with relief,

Trev: 00:18:41

into Gaza, the Israelis, decided that they're going to build this pier or a

Trev: 00:18:50

port and cause all aid to be funneled through onto a jetty and then into Gaza.

Trev: 00:18:59

Presumably because it would be so much easier for them to inspect

Trev: 00:19:03

and control what's coming in.

Trev: 00:19:05

Red.

Joe: 00:19:06

It's actually shipped to, another port in the Med where it's inspected

Joe: 00:19:15

and it's then loaded on barges that go across to this American built jetty.

Trev: 00:19:22

Yep.

Trev: 00:19:23

Cyprus, I think it goes via.

Trev: 00:19:25

That's it.

Trev: 00:19:26

Yeah.

Trev: 00:19:27

And then gets onto this jetty.

Trev: 00:19:29

But, that just creates an unbelievable bottleneck.

Trev: 00:19:34

And there's just not enough aid getting through.

Trev: 00:19:38

So, the head of the U.

Trev: 00:19:41

S.

Trev: 00:19:41

Agency for International Development, U.

Trev: 00:19:44

S.

Trev: 00:19:45

Aid, Samantha Power, said they're going to start using the C Route to deliver

Trev: 00:19:50

metric tonnes of life saving aid.

Trev: 00:19:54

It's a pretty stupid phrase because that might be just three

Trev: 00:19:57

metric tons and that's not much.

Trev: 00:19:59

Anyway, she added, the pier that opened today does not replace or substitute

Trev: 00:20:03

for land crossings in the Gaza, every one of which needs to operate

Trev: 00:20:06

at maximum capacity and efficiency.

Trev: 00:20:08

Every moment that a crossing is not open, the trucks are not moving, or where

Trev: 00:20:12

aid cannot be distributed increases the terrible human cost in this conflict.

Trev: 00:20:16

In the past two weeks, food and fuel entering Gaza has slowed

Trev: 00:20:19

to dangerously low levels.

Trev: 00:20:21

Barely 100 trucks of aid a day, far less than the 600 needed every day

Trev: 00:20:28

to address the threat of famine, this woman says, who is from USAID.

Trev: 00:20:34

So, barely 100 trucks a day when they need help.

Trev: 00:20:38

At least 600.

Trev: 00:20:40

And,

Joe: 00:20:41

Well, hang on.

Joe: 00:20:42

They need 600 to avoid famine.

Trev: 00:20:44

Yes.

Trev: 00:20:45

Yes.

Trev: 00:20:46

So they

Joe: 00:20:46

want more than that.

Trev: 00:20:47

Yes.

Trev: 00:20:49

Thousands, just for normal Yeah.

Trev: 00:20:52

sort of normal lifestyle.

Trev: 00:20:54

So, Actually, in that podcast with the two doctors, one of the doctors

Trev: 00:20:57

was saying that this hospital was going to close down because it

Trev: 00:21:00

simply did not have enough fuel.

Trev: 00:21:03

To operate the generators for the hospital.

Trev: 00:21:05

And, it's such a simple thing to allow enough fuel in for that, but nope.

Trev: 00:21:09

So, so yeah.

Trev: 00:21:12

That's that, just a criminal element to the Israeli actions

Trev: 00:21:18

there of proposing to funnel it all through this bottleneck of a pier.

Trev: 00:21:22

Ah, what else we got?

Trev: 00:21:27

I came across this, Joe, at the last moment, was Al Jazeera obtained a

Trev: 00:21:32

copy of the Gaza ceasefire proposal that Hamas said that it had accepted.

Trev: 00:21:39

So this was a deal put forward by Egypt and Qatar, a three stage

Trev: 00:21:45

deal that Hamas said They accepted.

Trev: 00:21:48

The Israelis said, no, we're not accepting it.

Trev: 00:21:52

And, three stages to it.

Trev: 00:21:54

The first stage basically involved Israel withdrawing Eastwood's unhindered

Trev: 00:22:02

humanitarian aid to be let in.

Trev: 00:22:05

Israeli planes and drones to stop flying over Gaza for 10 hours a day.

Trev: 00:22:09

Actually that was one of the other things these doctors mentioned was the incessant

Trev: 00:22:14

noise of drones flying overhead in Gaza.

Trev: 00:22:18

Now, Hamas would release 33 captives, which would be women, the sick, and male

Trev: 00:22:26

civilians aged below 19 and above 50.

Trev: 00:22:30

And as part of the deal, Israel releases 30 Palestinian prisoners

Trev: 00:22:35

for each civilian captive.

Trev: 00:22:38

And 50 for each captive female soldier, so a sort of 30 to 1 ratio, but you

Trev: 00:22:45

know, I'm just saying, we're going to release 33 captives, and then in stage

Trev: 00:22:51

2, which would happen 42 days later.

Trev: 00:22:55

It would be the exchange of remaining captive Israeli men and

Trev: 00:22:59

soldiers for sort of an unspecified number of Palestinian prisoners.

Trev: 00:23:03

So Joe, if you were a relative of one of the captive Israelis,

Trev: 00:23:11

you would be seriously pissed.

Trev: 00:23:13

and distraught and just incensed that Israel has not agreed to

Trev: 00:23:20

this deal cause it did involve the release of 30 Palestinian prisoners

Trev: 00:23:25

initially in prisoner swap deals and the remaining ones after 42 days.

Trev: 00:23:29

So it's obviously not about returning the prisoners as far as the current

Trev: 00:23:36

Israeli government is concerned.

Joe: 00:23:39

Well certainly not.

Joe: 00:23:40

Returning the number to 30 to 1 ratio.

Trev: 00:23:42

Yeah, yeah.

Trev: 00:23:46

John says the U.

Trev: 00:23:47

S.

Trev: 00:23:47

is building the port.

Trev: 00:23:49

Correct.

Trev: 00:23:49

Yeah, U.

Trev: 00:23:51

S.

Trev: 00:23:51

military.

Trev: 00:23:53

okay.

Trev: 00:23:55

U.

Trev: 00:23:55

N.

Trev: 00:23:55

vote, Joe, on, admission of new members, of a new member to the

Trev: 00:24:00

United Nations, namely Palestine, and should Palestine be admitted as

Trev: 00:24:06

a new member to the United Nations, Yes votes, 143, including Australia.

Trev: 00:24:14

No votes, 9 and 25 abstaining.

Trev: 00:24:19

Let's go through the no votes, in alphabetical order.

Trev: 00:24:24

Argentina, who has currently got a very right wing, crazy in charge.

Trev: 00:24:32

No,

Joe: 00:24:33

Galtier is dead.

Trev: 00:24:35

What's the name of the guy, Mierre, something like that.

Trev: 00:24:38

he's had the chain, he had a running chainsaw operating in his campaigning.

Trev: 00:24:43

So, he's a very pro America, neo liberal crazy.

Trev: 00:24:48

he's just gonna take that country to rack and ruin, but, that's Argentina.

Trev: 00:24:52

the other note, Chech, Chechya?

Joe: 00:24:55

Czech

Trev: 00:24:55

Republic.

Trev: 00:24:56

is that, is that the Czech Republic?

Trev: 00:24:57

Is it CZECHIA?

Trev: 00:24:59

I don't know.

Trev: 00:25:01

what other no's have we got here?

Trev: 00:25:04

Hungary, Israel.

Trev: 00:25:08

No prizes for guessing that one.

Joe: 00:25:10

Hungary's Orbán, isn't it?

Trev: 00:25:12

Um, I think so.

Trev: 00:25:15

I don't know much about Hungary and what's going on there.

Trev: 00:25:17

Fairly sure it's a very, very right wing regime.

Trev: 00:25:21

Yes, I think that's ringing a bell for me now that you mention that.

Trev: 00:25:26

A series of small Pacific Island type states like Micronesia,

Trev: 00:25:32

Nauru, Palau, Papua New Guinea.

Trev: 00:25:38

I think all of those have had some, something heavy has

Trev: 00:25:41

been leaning on them, I think.

Trev: 00:25:44

the other no, of course, would be the United States.

Trev: 00:25:49

So It was essentially the no vote for the Palestinian admission was the United

Trev: 00:25:56

States, Israel, Hungary and Argentina, and a bunch of very small states.

Joe: 00:26:04

Actually I wonder about the Pacific states, whether

Joe: 00:26:09

that's Christianity related.

Trev: 00:26:13

Yeah, maybe.

Trev: 00:26:15

Um.

Trev: 00:26:17

maybe.

Trev: 00:26:18

Tonga is here and it doesn't have anything against them as to what they did.

Trev: 00:26:22

So, can't say about that one.

Trev: 00:26:26

Vanuatu abstained.

Trev: 00:26:29

let's do some abstentions.

Trev: 00:26:31

Albania, Austria, Bulgaria, Canada, Croatia, Finland.

Trev: 00:26:41

What's going on there, Joe?

Trev: 00:26:42

I would have thought a progressive Finland.

Trev: 00:26:46

Fiji, there's another, Pacific Island country, Pacific Ocean country that's,

Trev: 00:26:52

Georgia, Germany, these are abstentions,

Trev: 00:26:56

Italy, Lithuania, Malawi, Marshall Islands, Monaco, Netherlands.

Trev: 00:27:05

I'm kind of surprised by the Scandinavian countries.

Trev: 00:27:07

I thought they might have been yeses.

Trev: 00:27:10

more abstentions.

Trev: 00:27:11

North Macedonia, Paraguay, Republic of Moldovia, Romania, Sweden, Switzerland,

Trev: 00:27:20

Ukraine, United Kingdom, Vanuatu.

Trev: 00:27:26

There we go.

Trev: 00:27:27

It seems, Joe, that all of Africa and all of Asia has voted in favour of.

Trev: 00:27:36

in favour of Palestine, that sort of, and, and pretty much all of

Trev: 00:27:41

South America and Central America, Latin America, except for Argentina.

Trev: 00:27:45

That's, that's that global South that we've been talking about as now, you know,

Trev: 00:27:52

aligning with, China and BRICS nations.

Trev: 00:27:56

So, yeah.

Trev: 00:27:59

Anyway, I think the fact that the United States voted against it was enough to make

Trev: 00:28:04

sure that they're not a full member but they have some sort of right to be Because

Joe: 00:28:10

they're not

Trev: 00:28:11

the Security Council.

Trev: 00:28:11

They have some right to be involved in putting forward motions and things

Trev: 00:28:17

but unable to vote and be a full member So I don't know the quite the

Trev: 00:28:20

full detail on that yet Joe, did you have any opinion on David McBride,

Trev: 00:28:25

the whistleblower, and his sentence?

Trev: 00:28:29

Did you have any initial thoughts on him?

Joe: 00:28:33

Only what I've heard third hand, and that's mostly been he

Joe: 00:28:37

wasn't looking out for the soldiers.

Joe: 00:28:41

Oh sorry, he was not worried about the victims, he was

Joe: 00:28:49

worried about the soldiers.

Joe: 00:28:51

And,

Trev: 00:28:52

Lower rank soldiers in particular.

Trev: 00:28:54

Yes.

Joe: 00:28:57

he was standing up for them and possibly his leaks weren't

Joe: 00:29:02

in the best intention, even if they came to good outcomes.

Trev: 00:29:09

Yes, it's complicated with him.

Trev: 00:29:11

Yeah, he's he's not the pure hero whistleblower That we

Trev: 00:29:16

would like him to he's not a

Joe: 00:29:18

perfect victim.

Joe: 00:29:19

No,

Trev: 00:29:20

he's not it is complicated with him.

Trev: 00:29:23

So it seems that his motivation was about exposing corruption by the upper

Trev: 00:29:33

levels of the military and which was leading to the lower levels being

Trev: 00:29:38

unfairly blamed for things, more so than perhaps a desire to reveal war crimes.

Trev: 00:29:47

And at some level it was argued that he was in fact doing the opposite in wanting

Trev: 00:29:53

to protect some soldiers from prosecution.

Trev: 00:30:00

So his motivations are definitely part of it.

Trev: 00:30:03

And, the judge Mossop said the intent of the material McBride disclosed was the

Trev: 00:30:08

opposite of what those stories published.

Trev: 00:30:10

He implied McBride's intention should be understood in simple terms.

Trev: 00:30:13

McBride thought he was doing the right thing for all the wrong

Trev: 00:30:15

reasons and was an undeserving hero.

Joe: 00:30:18

But this is always the, or not always the case, but certainly Fairly often.

Joe: 00:30:23

I mean, Assange is definitely not a perfect victim.

Trev: 00:30:27

Yes.

Joe: 00:30:28

So I think if we allow this, oh well, you know, they're

Joe: 00:30:33

a bad person because reasons.

Joe: 00:30:36

Yep.

Joe: 00:30:37

then we silence the whistleblowers.

Trev: 00:30:39

Yes.

Trev: 00:30:40

And, in one of the articles I read, Kieran Pender from Human Rights Law Centre said,

Trev: 00:30:48

Australian whistleblower protection laws were intentionally amended to remove a

Trev: 00:30:51

good faith threshold in recognition that the focus should be on public interest.

Trev: 00:30:57

So, I guess the judge is saying in a way, it doesn't matter that there's a

Trev: 00:31:04

public interest in this case because the legislation doesn't allow for it.

Trev: 00:31:10

End.

Trev: 00:31:11

And what we really need is if the person exposes something that is of

Trev: 00:31:19

public interest, which this undoubtedly was, then it probably shouldn't really

Trev: 00:31:25

matter why they did, because if it, if it, if it passes that public interest

Trev: 00:31:33

test, then that should be enough.

Trev: 00:31:35

And one of the reporters involved in the ABC story was sort of saying that

Trev: 00:31:41

that this guy's motivation was murky.

Trev: 00:31:43

Um, I'll read this bit here.

Trev: 00:31:47

The focus on McBride's intentionality was highlighted in March in

Trev: 00:31:50

an episode of Four Corners.

Trev: 00:31:52

Dan Oakes, one of the journalists who broke the Afghan file story,

Trev: 00:31:55

called McBride's intent Murky, mirroring Mossop's sentiment, so

Trev: 00:32:01

mirroring what the judge said.

Trev: 00:32:03

McBride was painted as someone who was attempting to cover up war crimes rather

Trev: 00:32:06

than expose them by arguing soldiers were being unfairly targeted and investigated

Trev: 00:32:10

for decisions made by leadership.

Trev: 00:32:12

So it was kind of like McBride went to the journalist with an agenda

Trev: 00:32:20

relating to military corruption.

Trev: 00:32:24

And of course the journalists saw the material and went, well these are

Trev: 00:32:27

war crimes, and ran with that, which wasn't necessarily what McBride had in

Trev: 00:32:32

mind when he handed over the material.

Trev: 00:32:36

But in reality, it was very much undoubtedly of public interest,

Trev: 00:32:41

so we should have whistleblower laws that encourage the exposing

Trev: 00:32:49

of public interest material like

Joe: 00:32:52

that.

Joe: 00:32:53

I think that's it.

Joe: 00:32:54

I said at the time, it was obvious that these soldiers didn't act on their own.

Joe: 00:32:59

Hmm.

Joe: 00:33:01

That there was a level of oversight, from senior commanders

Joe: 00:33:06

that allowed this to go on.

Trev: 00:33:07

Hmm.

Trev: 00:33:09

Yeah.

Joe: 00:33:10

And I don't think any of them have faced charges.

Joe: 00:33:13

Yeah.

Trev: 00:33:15

In the John Kweropil, oh sorry, in the John Minidue blog, was an

Trev: 00:33:19

article by John Kweropil, I've quoted in the past, not favourably, because

Trev: 00:33:26

John is a Newcastle based historian, theologian, social commentator.

Trev: 00:33:32

but anyway, he sometimes comes out with some good stuff

Trev: 00:33:35

and some interesting stuff.

Trev: 00:33:36

And, he looked at the decision and he said, the offence was the

Trev: 00:33:41

refusal to just follow orders.

Trev: 00:33:44

Quoting from the article here, The only duty a soldier has is to follow

Trev: 00:33:48

orders, whatever those orders may be.

Trev: 00:33:49

There is no higher obligation, and to think there is, is to be accused

Trev: 00:33:52

of the arrogance of knowing best.

Trev: 00:33:54

One must operate within the constraints of the organisation, and those that

Trev: 00:33:58

do not, must know, that breaching their legal obligations will be

Trev: 00:34:02

met by significant punishment.

Trev: 00:34:05

These are the words of Supreme Court Justice David

Trev: 00:34:09

Mossop in sentencing McBride.

Trev: 00:34:11

So, an emphasis on a soldier just following orders.

Trev: 00:34:16

and operating within the constraints of the organisation.

Trev: 00:34:20

And he makes the point, okay, I don't know if that's exactly what Mossop was

Trev: 00:34:25

saying, there's a bit of that in there.

Trev: 00:34:28

He makes the point that that's the mindset that was the defence mounted by the Nazis

Trev: 00:34:32

facing trial in the Nuremberg Tribunal, where these guys were saying that I was

Trev: 00:34:39

just following orders and what could I do?

Trev: 00:34:41

I was just one man in an organisation and you know, I just

Trev: 00:34:45

would have been shot if I didn't.

Trev: 00:34:47

So I was just following orders.

Trev: 00:34:51

And in the Nuremberg trial, it was like, well, just following

Trev: 00:34:55

orders wasn't good enough.

Trev: 00:34:57

that wasn't seen as a defence, was it, to the crimes that the Nazis were accused

Trev: 00:35:04

of, simply say you were following orders.

Trev: 00:35:07

So an interesting concept where it's a bit dangerous to say to soldiers, No

Trev: 00:35:17

matter what, you must follow orders.

Trev: 00:35:21

and don't be so smart to think you know what's best, when really it was expected

Trev: 00:35:25

of other people in other circumstances.

Trev: 00:35:27

You know, the genocide orders that you're following, maybe

Trev: 00:35:30

you shouldn't follow them.

Joe: 00:35:32

I also think, linking documents to a journalist isn't

Joe: 00:35:41

thinking you know what's best.

Joe: 00:35:43

It's taking it to somebody else for a second opinion.

Joe: 00:35:46

Mm.

Joe: 00:35:48

Yeah.

Joe: 00:35:50

Yeah.

Trev: 00:35:52

in the chat room, Whatley thinks good call Joe.

Trev: 00:35:55

definitely Mormon in islands.

Trev: 00:35:57

So the religious aspect of Pacific Islanders may have been a factor in

Trev: 00:36:02

their vote on the Palestinian decision.

Trev: 00:36:04

Yeah.

Trev: 00:36:05

John, on the other hand, I'm a bit torn to McBride.

Trev: 00:36:08

I do think he was a bit naive.

Trev: 00:36:09

What did he think was going to happen?

Trev: 00:36:12

Um, okay.

Trev: 00:36:15

So that's those comments.

Trev: 00:36:17

what else we got on this guy?

Trev: 00:36:19

I think that's the main part about McBride.

Trev: 00:36:22

but, so Rex Patrick, he's like this independent guy in South Australia, Joe?

Trev: 00:36:29

Senator?

Joe: 00:36:30

Senator, yeah.

Trev: 00:36:31

Yeah, doing lots of stuff with freedom of information requests.

Trev: 00:36:35

anyway.

Trev: 00:36:36

Apparently the Senate voted, or tried to vote, that whistleblowers are

Trev: 00:36:42

important and protections need to be enhanced as a matter of priority.

Trev: 00:36:46

And it's like, I don't know, a bit of a motherhood statement.

Trev: 00:36:51

let's help whistleblowers.

Trev: 00:36:53

And the, the government and the coalition voted against it.

Trev: 00:36:59

So it was just, yeah.

Trev: 00:37:02

It's pretty, not so hard in voting in favour of improving

Trev: 00:37:08

whistleblower protection laws to include public interest disclosure.

Joe: 00:37:13

I just Well, because your guilty secrets might come out.

Trev: 00:37:19

It's so disappointing by this Labor government.

Trev: 00:37:23

another thing he's been up to, Rex Patrick, So, the War Memorial, Joe,

Trev: 00:37:30

gets all sorts of crazy funding from the government and, let me just try

Trev: 00:37:36

and see here, the Department of Foreign Affairs, according to Rex Patrick,

Trev: 00:37:41

tried to influence the War Memorial's history of Australia's involvement

Trev: 00:37:46

in East Timor two decades ago.

Trev: 00:37:49

Remember, dear listener, we've done episodes in the past.

Trev: 00:37:52

Explaining how Australia bugged the meeting room that the, well the cabinet

Trev: 00:37:58

room, I think it was, of the East Timorese, so knew their negotiating

Trev: 00:38:02

position and, and, you know, just behaved appallingly and in all sorts

Trev: 00:38:07

of ways against the poor East Timorese.

Trev: 00:38:09

And so he's asked for freedom of information material about representations

Trev: 00:38:17

that the Department of Foreign Affairs.

Trev: 00:38:19

May have made to the War Memorial, trying to water down Australia's

Trev: 00:38:26

pretty poor record in East Timor.

Trev: 00:38:29

And of course, the, the government is appealing the decision.

Trev: 00:38:34

So, looks like he had a win with the freedom of information, but

Trev: 00:38:38

then the Australian government has decided to appeal and hold

Trev: 00:38:44

off and hide those documents.

Trev: 00:38:46

And for God's sake, Labor government, like this was two decades ago.

Trev: 00:38:51

Nobody.

Trev: 00:38:53

Currently in your little group is going to be affected by this.

Trev: 00:38:57

just let's, let's get our dirty laundry out.

Joe: 00:39:00

Can't they just will the papers through cabinet?

Trev: 00:39:04

Yes, the Kevin Rudd method.

Trev: 00:39:08

Yeah, and say that, well, cabinet considered everything

Trev: 00:39:11

on that trolley over there.

Trev: 00:39:12

So it's now secret.

Trev: 00:39:13

Yeah.

Trev: 00:39:14

Joe, the budget came out.

Trev: 00:39:17

When the highlight of the budget is everyone gets 300 to

Trev: 00:39:20

cover their electricity bill, it's not much of a budget.

Trev: 00:39:23

It's my assessment.

Trev: 00:39:26

there's no big thinking in this one.

Trev: 00:39:28

I wouldn't have thought.

Joe: 00:39:28

This is the following, I think from the UK that did exactly

Joe: 00:39:31

the same thing last winter.

Joe: 00:39:33

Ah,

Trev: 00:39:34

it's, it's so pathetic.

Trev: 00:39:36

With all of the inherent problems in our budget, And this government is

Trev: 00:39:41

way too scared to tackle anything.

Trev: 00:39:45

interesting article.

Trev: 00:39:46

Well, we've previously talked about the GST carve up and how unfair it

Trev: 00:39:52

is to everybody now except Western Australia, who are getting an

Trev: 00:39:56

amazing deal from the GST carve up.

Trev: 00:40:00

And there's a good little summary by Ian McAuley where he says that, um

Trev: 00:40:08

the Western Australian State Budget, they've increased funding for housing,

Trev: 00:40:13

urban rail projects, capital funding for state schools, and they're going to

Trev: 00:40:17

have a leftover operating surplus of 2.

Trev: 00:40:20

6 billion.

Trev: 00:40:21

And in the last, eight years Coal plating

Joe: 00:40:23

the roads next.

Joe: 00:40:25

Yeah.

Trev: 00:40:26

In the last eight years, they've run up surpluses of 20 billion, while

Trev: 00:40:31

the other states have in that period have run deficits totaling 300 billion.

Trev: 00:40:37

So, in eight years, a 20 billion surplus to Western Australia.

Trev: 00:40:42

A 300 billion deficit for the rest of the states and it's all

Trev: 00:40:48

because a large, a little context.

Trev: 00:40:52

So he says, this is Ian McAuley, compared to other federations such

Trev: 00:40:58

as US, Canada and Germany, Australia has only minor disparities in

Trev: 00:41:02

living standards between states.

Trev: 00:41:05

Joe, were you aware of big disparities in living standards in

Trev: 00:41:08

Canada and Germany, in the States?

Joe: 00:41:11

No, I'm in the U.

Joe: 00:41:12

S.

Joe: 00:41:13

Yeah,

Trev: 00:41:13

U.

Trev: 00:41:14

S.

Trev: 00:41:14

certainly.

Trev: 00:41:15

And he says one reason is the Commonwealth collects about 80 percent of all taxes,

Trev: 00:41:20

and it provides all of the income transfer programs in terms of pensions and social

Trev: 00:41:25

security, and it distributes a big segment of funding, specifically revenue from GST.

Trev: 00:41:33

On the basis of the needs of the state governments.

Trev: 00:41:38

Now that's been in place since 1933, when the Grants Commission was established.

Trev: 00:41:43

And it looks at each state, it looks at what are they able to get in terms

Trev: 00:41:48

of revenue, how much do they have to spend, traditionally states that were

Trev: 00:41:54

very large and sparsely populated, therefore had greater expenses in

Trev: 00:42:00

providing infrastructure and facilities, so they would be compensated for that.

Trev: 00:42:06

And get more money per head of population than a compact state such

Trev: 00:42:13

as, Victoria or New South Wales.

Trev: 00:42:15

So for most of our sort of, last hundred years, it's been New South Wales and

Trev: 00:42:21

Victoria subsidizing the other states.

Trev: 00:42:25

So Victoria, for example, might collect, For every a hundred dollars

Trev: 00:42:30

that, Victorians pay in GST only, 90 would come back to Victoria, the other

Trev: 00:42:36

10 would go to a less well off state.

Trev: 00:42:38

So this worked very well for many years.

Trev: 00:42:41

New South Wales Victoria, being good guys, having a grumble,

Trev: 00:42:45

but subsidising the others.

Trev: 00:42:49

And, and in fact, until 1960, Western Australia was a main beneficiary.

Trev: 00:42:53

More recently it's been Tasmania.

Trev: 00:42:56

But things have changed.

Trev: 00:42:58

They started finding iron ore, gas and copper and lithium in Western Australia.

Trev: 00:43:02

As a result, Western Australia was getting, It's now taking in 10 billion

Trev: 00:43:09

a year in mineral royalties, which other states don't come close to.

Trev: 00:43:16

And so what the Grants Commission did was they looked at it and said, well, you're

Trev: 00:43:21

collecting 10 billion in mining royalties.

Trev: 00:43:25

The other states have no capacity like that to generate income.

Trev: 00:43:29

They've got all these expenses.

Trev: 00:43:30

You guys are going to get almost nothing out of the GST because you've got so much

Trev: 00:43:35

money from this mining royalties source.

Trev: 00:43:39

And that didn't please the Western Australians.

Trev: 00:43:43

They've got a lot of strategic pull because it was an important

Trev: 00:43:47

place in terms of electoral power.

Trev: 00:43:50

It's what got the Morrison government in.

Trev: 00:43:53

When, he won that election, and It's what got Labor in with Albanese

Trev: 00:43:58

when they managed to claw back some of the seats in Western Australia.

Trev: 00:44:02

So both sides of politics are incredibly keen to keep Western Australia happy.

Trev: 00:44:07

And what they decided to do was say that, that what we'll do is instead

Trev: 00:44:12

of looking objectively at what your income and expenses are and taking into

Trev: 00:44:18

account these things, we'll just make sure that you never get less than 70

Trev: 00:44:25

percent of what you would have got if it was just on an equal per capita basis.

Trev: 00:44:30

And that's way more than Western Australia should be getting.

Trev: 00:44:35

Sawless Lake described it as the worst policy decision ever.

Trev: 00:44:39

And, we've got an incredibly unbalanced distribution of funds

Trev: 00:44:44

going to Western Australia.

Trev: 00:44:46

Nice little summary of it there.

Trev: 00:44:47

We've said it before, but it's worth repeating.

Trev: 00:44:50

And these are just some of the fundamental things, Joe, that are in, you know, we've

Trev: 00:44:54

talked about negative gearing, capital gains tax, a range of other things.

Trev: 00:45:01

And this Labor government just flops around with a 300 electricity

Trev: 00:45:06

subsidy without having the balls to try and fix any of this shit.

Joe: 00:45:12

Yeah, I think they should have done it just after they got in.

Joe: 00:45:16

Yeah.

Joe: 00:45:16

Because by the time of the next general election, they'll have forgotten.

Joe: 00:45:21

Yes, yes.

Joe: 00:45:24

Just, voters, you are from a shiny tie.

Joe: 00:45:28

just before the election and you get the votes in.

Joe: 00:45:32

Yeah.

Trev: 00:45:33

We'll just do what's right.

Trev: 00:45:35

What is the point of being in power if you can't exercise the power and

Trev: 00:45:39

you just have to enact whatever the Liberals were going to do anyway?

Trev: 00:45:43

What's the point of being there if you just have to be whatever the

Trev: 00:45:47

Liberals would have been anyway?

Joe: 00:45:49

Because otherwise, you've not been in power, you don't get that

Joe: 00:45:53

consultancy job when you leave.

Joe: 00:45:55

Yeah.

Trev: 00:45:56

It's just, honestly, these decisions.

Trev: 00:46:00

Orcus, it's exactly the same as if, as if Dutton was in power.

Trev: 00:46:05

These freedom of information requests that get knocked back,

Trev: 00:46:08

Dutton would have done the same.

Trev: 00:46:10

Persecuting McBride, Dutton would have done the same.

Trev: 00:46:14

but just Oh,

Joe: 00:46:16

but they're

Trev: 00:46:17

not doing

Joe: 00:46:19

nuclear.

Joe: 00:46:19

True.

Trev: 00:46:20

But we are going to open some coal mines.

Trev: 00:46:22

Yes.

Trev: 00:46:25

So much of what they are doing is just, you know, there's no

Trev: 00:46:29

difference between these parties.

Trev: 00:46:32

They're closer than any of the other parties.

Trev: 00:46:34

They should be forming coalitions when they Yeah.

Trev: 00:46:38

Anyway, he makes the point here actually that Western Australia has

Trev: 00:46:42

always had a difficult relationship with the rest of Australia.

Trev: 00:46:45

So it was the last state to hold a referendum to join the Federation.

Trev: 00:46:49

And in 1933, as the Depression took hold, it held another referendum

Trev: 00:46:56

on whether it should leave the Commonwealth, and two thirds of Western

Trev: 00:46:59

Australians voted for secession.

Trev: 00:47:03

This was in

Joe: 00:47:04

1933.

Joe: 00:47:05

Well, I know that for Federation, New Zealand was more likely to join than WA.

Joe: 00:47:09

There we go.

Trev: 00:47:12

And in 1933, the British government refused to accede the request.

Trev: 00:47:18

Must have been at a time when our constitution still had enough.

Trev: 00:47:21

British involvement?

Joe: 00:47:23

How did

Trev: 00:47:23

the British government refuse to receive the request anyway?

Joe: 00:47:26

It was still a colony until the late 50s.

Trev: 00:47:30

not because they respected Australia's sovereignty, but because

Trev: 00:47:33

they feared Western Australia's secession would energise separatist movements

Trev: 00:47:36

in other parts of the British Empire.

Trev: 00:47:38

That makes sense.

Trev: 00:47:40

Yeah, so that's Western Australia, Might be time to move there if

Trev: 00:47:44

you're a young person, because I can't see either party changing it.

Trev: 00:47:49

They're just going to get bucket loads of cash over the next 20 years.

Trev: 00:47:54

Joe, if you're into construction and building and engineering

Trev: 00:47:56

and infrastructure and stuff, it'll be the place to be.

Trev: 00:48:02

Yeah.

Trev: 00:48:03

Guy Rundle in Crikey had a big whinge about Labor, saying they're now the

Joe: 00:48:09

party.

Joe: 00:48:09

Probably saying that it was refused because of French interests in WA.

Trev: 00:48:13

What's that?

Trev: 00:48:15

Brits refused because we had

Joe: 00:48:18

Because WA had French interests.

Trev: 00:48:21

Ah, the French were interested in, in moving into WA if they succeeded.

Trev: 00:48:27

Quite possibly, that would make sense.

Trev: 00:48:33

So, hmm.

Trev: 00:48:36

Okay, was that Watley?

Trev: 00:48:37

Okay, good on you Watley.

Trev: 00:48:39

Hmm.

Trev: 00:48:40

He's well read, Whatley.

Trev: 00:48:42

where am I?

Trev: 00:48:43

Back to this.

Trev: 00:48:44

Guy Rundle that, that they're the party of asset owners, but they're purporting

Trev: 00:48:51

to represent the assetless and the poor, and therein lies a problem.

Trev: 00:48:55

So he goes on about that, in a sense, our gutless of a.

Trev: 00:48:59

For some reason I'm on the ACL, Australian Christian Lobby, email list.

Trev: 00:49:05

Just before Mother's Day, they sent me an email encouraging me to complain about,

Trev: 00:49:12

Well, she writes here, this is the lady from ACL, Michelle Pierce.

Trev: 00:49:17

I'm excited to announce ACL's new Only Two initiative, a vital campaign

Trev: 00:49:21

affirming the inherent value, meaning and complementary purpose of women's voices.

Trev: 00:49:25

of the two biological sexes.

Trev: 00:49:27

In our gender confused culture we must lovingly yet boldly

Trev: 00:49:31

proclaim God's intentional design.

Trev: 00:49:35

Will you join us in honouring his creation and protecting the next generation?

Trev: 00:49:38

Visit our only two page to get involved by purchasing merchandise,

Trev: 00:49:43

accessing resources, advocating for policies, sparking social

Trev: 00:49:47

media conversations and more.

Trev: 00:49:50

So that was my Mother's Day message from the Australian Christian Lobby.

Joe: 00:49:54

Years ago, back when marriage equality was happening, I signed up

Joe: 00:50:02

to leave a message for the anti group to tell them to go fuck themselves.

Trev: 00:50:07

Yes.

Joe: 00:50:08

And ended up on their mailing list, which is now binary, who

Joe: 00:50:14

are an anti trans lobby group.

Trev: 00:50:16

Right.

Joe: 00:50:17

So, about two or three times a week I get a email from them,

Joe: 00:50:23

railing against trans people.

Trev: 00:50:26

Right, and you got onto the list because initially you wrote to them

Trev: 00:50:28

telling to F off and they suddenly put you on the mailing list, right?

Joe: 00:50:33

Basically, to leave a comment, you had to give an email address.

Joe: 00:50:36

So I did.

Joe: 00:50:37

Yeah.

Joe: 00:50:37

And then they continued to spam me.

Trev: 00:50:39

There you go.

Trev: 00:50:41

And you're sort of enjoying just reading it any, well, not enjoying, but it's,

Trev: 00:50:44

you're finding it interesting enough.

Joe: 00:50:45

Archived it just for posterity.

Trev: 00:50:48

Yeah.

Trev: 00:50:51

Queensland Joe is looking at changing.

Trev: 00:50:54

anti discrimination laws, that religious groups, in particular

Trev: 00:50:59

schools, can only hire on the basis of faith if it's strictly necessary

Trev: 00:51:05

for, as an occupational requirement.

Trev: 00:51:09

So, for example, if you're teaching religious instruction, that

Trev: 00:51:15

would be a religious, a genuine occupational requirement, so some

Trev: 00:51:19

discrimination will be allowed there.

Trev: 00:51:22

But presumably if you're teaching math, then religion is not a

Trev: 00:51:26

genuine occupational requirement.

Trev: 00:51:28

So, so it looks like the Queensland Labor Government is going to put that in before

Trev: 00:51:36

the state election in late October.

Trev: 00:51:40

Don't hear much about these sorts of things, but it's going on.

Trev: 00:51:43

We don't hear much about it in the courier mail, or the courier fail.

Joe: 00:51:47

What a surprise.

Trev: 00:51:48

Yeah.

Joe: 00:51:49

Well, actually I, I am surprised because it'd be something they

Joe: 00:51:54

could beat up Steve and Miles about.

Trev: 00:51:56

Yeah.

Trev: 00:51:58

But you know what, I reckon they sense that most Queenslanders think

Trev: 00:52:04

it would be a good idea and don't want to make it an issue, probably.

Trev: 00:52:09

Maybe they think that way.

Trev: 00:52:10

I don't know.

Trev: 00:52:12

I just, I just read, as I read that paper, I just, I go, okay, I'm

Trev: 00:52:17

about to read, the LNP newsletter.

Trev: 00:52:22

And if I take that mindset in, it never fails.

Joe: 00:52:27

Not even the LNP newsletter.

Joe: 00:52:30

The Rupert Murdoch newsletter.

Trev: 00:52:31

Yes.

Joe: 00:52:32

Which is mostly aligned with them, but not necessarily.

Joe: 00:52:35

Yes.

Trev: 00:52:37

just the, the unmitigated bias that they exhibit.

Trev: 00:52:41

It's, it's comical almost.

Trev: 00:52:45

If I see people exiting, Joe, a newsagent, or walking in a

Trev: 00:52:49

shopping centre, with one of those tucked under their arm, I just go,

Joe: 00:52:54

honestly, what are you doing?

Joe: 00:52:56

Well, he's buying a newspaper these days.

Joe: 00:52:58

Yeah,

Trev: 00:52:59

it's always old boomers, isn't it?

Trev: 00:53:00

Yeah, same.

Trev: 00:53:02

Oh, John says Watley has stopped showing up on my YouTube chat.

Trev: 00:53:07

Watley, you might have disappeared.

Trev: 00:53:09

From the YouTube chat, but it doesn't matter, John.

Trev: 00:53:11

You can see him on the chat.

Trev: 00:53:15

maybe Watley got banned for being a bad boy at one point.

Trev: 00:53:18

I don't know.

Trev: 00:53:19

Anyway, it's nothing we've done.

Joe: 00:53:23

Nope.

Trev: 00:53:23

Um, to give my voice a rest, John Mearsheimer, explaining

Trev: 00:53:30

Ukraine to Piers Morgan.

Trev: 00:53:33

I was reading something the other day where we get so much We get so much

Trev: 00:53:41

from mainstream media, aka Murdoch, ABC and The Guardian, about the

Trev: 00:53:49

Ukrainian position in that conflict.

Trev: 00:53:52

But we very rarely get to see anything from the Russian point of view, whether

Trev: 00:53:58

you want to agree with it or not, but just what that point of view is.

Trev: 00:54:02

Anyway, just to give my voice a rest, here's a bit of, Mia Shimer talking

Trev: 00:54:07

about, the, talking to Piers Morgan,

Trev: 00:54:11

coming up here.

Trev: 00:54:13

Here we go.

Mearsheimer: 00:54:15

You want to remember that if you look at what's happening

Mearsheimer: 00:54:18

in the conventional war, it looks like Putin's going to win.

Mearsheimer: 00:54:21

Despite the fact that we've now passed this large scale arms package

Mearsheimer: 00:54:26

for Ukraine, Putin is likely to win.

Piers: 00:54:29

Why is that not a terrible thing?

Piers: 00:54:32

For America and the West.

Mearsheimer: 00:54:34

Because you have to prioritize the threats

Mearsheimer: 00:54:37

that you face in the world.

Mearsheimer: 00:54:38

And the fact of the matter is that what happens in Ukraine does not

Mearsheimer: 00:54:41

matter that much to the United States.

Mearsheimer: 00:54:43

I know for people like you, this is a life and death matter.

Mearsheimer: 00:54:46

The thought of any country on the planet that the West defends losing is a major

Mearsheimer: 00:54:54

defeat and has catastrophic consequences.

Mearsheimer: 00:54:56

I mean, you felt this way about us pulling out of Afghanistan.

Mearsheimer: 00:55:00

But I think that places like Afghanistan, even places like

Mearsheimer: 00:55:04

Ukraine don't matter that much.

Piers: 00:55:06

I didn't really.

Piers: 00:55:07

I felt with Afghanistan, America should have kept a small military presence

Piers: 00:55:11

there to maintain some kind of order.

Piers: 00:55:14

And I think I was justified in saying that, given what's happened since.

Piers: 00:55:18

I thought throwing the, the country back to the Taliban was a catastrophic

Piers: 00:55:22

error of judgment and it wouldn't have happened in the way it's happened

Piers: 00:55:25

if America had kept a couple of thousand troops there, as it does all

Piers: 00:55:28

around the world in endless bases.

Piers: 00:55:30

So it seemed to me having done, you know, many, many years of hard work

Piers: 00:55:35

in Afghanistan as a response to 9 11 to then simply just overnight,

Piers: 00:55:40

throw everybody out, and leave the country to the Taliban, particularly

Piers: 00:55:43

for women's rights, I thought was an abrogation of America's duty and the UK.

Mearsheimer: 00:55:49

Right, but this is your world view, which is the United States

Mearsheimer: 00:55:52

has a responsibility to be everywhere, and to never quit until it wins.

Mearsheimer: 00:55:55

Not everywhere, but they should

Piers: 00:55:56

certainly be preserving freedom and democracy.

Piers: 00:55:59

Otherwise, why self style yourself as leader of the free world?

Piers: 00:56:03

You're either a leader of the free world, and America still has, I think,

Piers: 00:56:06

half the world's military firepower, and obviously one of the biggest

Piers: 00:56:09

economies, you're either are or are not.

Piers: 00:56:12

entity, leader of the free world, or you're not.

Piers: 00:56:15

And if you are, then what comes with that is a responsibility to protect freedom

Piers: 00:56:19

and democracy when it comes under attack from totalitarian regimes, I would think.

Mearsheimer: 00:56:25

I think if you look at the history of American foreign policy,

Mearsheimer: 00:56:27

it's very hard to make the case that our principal goal has to be to Ben,

Mearsheimer: 00:56:32

to protect freedom and democracy.

Mearsheimer: 00:56:35

The United States has a rich history of overthrowing democracies around the world,

Mearsheimer: 00:56:41

and we have a rich history of siding with some of the world's biggest dictators.

Mearsheimer: 00:56:47

So this idea that we're out there protecting freedom and democracy,

Mearsheimer: 00:56:51

and it's our principal goal, in my opinion, doesn't mesh with reality.

Trev: 00:56:56

There we go.

Trev: 00:56:57

So Mia Shimer, of course, is the one, who's always arguing that NATO

Trev: 00:57:02

aggression and Putin warning and saying, don't put NATO in Ukraine and, and

Trev: 00:57:10

sort of backing up a whole bunch of U.

Trev: 00:57:12

S.

Trev: 00:57:12

ambassadors and, Ken and Malik and the architects of the Monroe, not Monroe

Trev: 00:57:17

Doctrine, the, Marshall Plan and others, who are basically saying it's

Trev: 00:57:21

a really, really bad idea to expand.

Trev: 00:57:25

Eastwoods, and it'll eventually reach a red line.

Trev: 00:57:29

So, anyway, I thought he made a good point there about when Piers Morgan said,

Trev: 00:57:35

well, they're the leader of the free world and they go around, supporting

Trev: 00:57:39

democracies and that's their job.

Trev: 00:57:40

And he said, well, quite rightly, actually, lots of times they don't,

Trev: 00:57:44

and they're supporting terrible dictators when it suits them.

Trev: 00:57:46

I'm sorry.

Trev: 00:57:48

They're inconsistent in that regard.

Trev: 00:57:51

Is that with Mearsheimer?

Trev: 00:57:53

Yeah, but

Joe: 00:57:53

they're not supporting Putin this time.

Trev: 00:57:56

Not this time.

Trev: 00:57:57

I tell you what, if he turned on Russia, on China, they would.

Joe: 00:58:00

Maybe.

Trev: 00:58:03

They'd be right with him straight away.

Trev: 00:58:06

Speaking of China and Russia, big meeting between them, high powered discussions.

Trev: 00:58:14

China and Russia issued a joint statement, 8000 word statement when it's translated

Trev: 00:58:20

into English and basically saying there's, we now have Russia and China explicitly

Trev: 00:58:25

stating that they're all in with each other to bring a new equal and orderly

Trev: 00:58:30

multipolar world and the democratisation of international relations and put an

Trev: 00:58:36

end to US hegemonic Hegemonic behaviour.

Trev: 00:58:41

So basically, a statement pretty much saying, we're going to work together

Trev: 00:58:46

as closely as we can, and we're going to work with the UN, and we're going

Trev: 00:58:51

to be talking about international law, not the international rule of

Trev: 00:58:56

law that these guys talk about, but actual proper international law,

Trev: 00:59:00

and and they're not going to put up with US hegemonic behaviour anymore.

Trev: 00:59:07

In an 8, 000 word statement, and those guys are as close

Trev: 00:59:11

as they've been possibly ever.

Trev: 00:59:14

I would have said China and Russia, so, what do you think, Joe?

Trev: 00:59:19

Thick as thieves in China and Russia?

Trev: 00:59:22

You see any reason that that's not the case?

Joe: 00:59:25

I think it makes a very interesting show for the world.

Joe: 00:59:30

I think behind the scenes, they're miles apart.

Trev: 00:59:35

You think Russia and China are miles apart?

Trev: 00:59:40

Yeah.

Trev: 00:59:41

In what way?

Joe: 00:59:43

China has been very reticent about supporting Russia and Ukraine.

Joe: 00:59:49

Hmm.

Joe: 00:59:50

And

Trev: 00:59:51

Supplying, military, hardware and bits and pieces and chips?

Trev: 00:59:57

Like

Joe: 00:59:58

tiny bits.

Joe: 01:00:00

they've also got a land border that they fight over, not

Joe: 01:00:03

infrequently, China and Russia.

Trev: 01:00:06

When was the last time they fought over their land border?

Joe: 01:00:10

Wasn't that long ago.

Trev: 01:00:12

Right.

Trev: 01:00:13

I can't remember.

Trev: 01:00:13

This isn't like with the Indians where they do it with sticks.

Joe: 01:00:16

You're aware of that one?

Joe: 01:00:18

Between the Danes and Canada?

Joe: 01:00:20

Right.

Joe: 01:00:21

You're aware of that?

Trev: 01:00:23

No, but I just know that there's that one with India up in

Trev: 01:00:26

some high pass, no sort of covered alp region where they've agreed.

Trev: 01:00:31

That they can fight, but they're not allowed to use, weapons, except for

Trev: 01:00:36

sticks and shovels and, and stuff, so they occasionally beat each

Trev: 01:00:40

other with that to minimise, yeah.

Trev: 01:00:44

I haven't heard of China and Russia having a border dispute for a while.

Trev: 01:00:50

I thought,

Joe: 01:00:51

maybe the 90s?

Trev: 01:00:53

Right, okay.

Trev: 01:00:54

Yep.

Trev: 01:00:56

Yeah.

Trev: 01:00:56

Whatley's going Sino Russian conflict, 1920s and 30s.

Joe: 01:01:00

Yeah, I'm sure there's something more recently.

Joe: 01:01:02

Okay.

Trev: 01:01:04

Anyway, you know, you've essentially got,

Trev: 01:01:09

America described Russia as like a gas station, something like

Trev: 01:01:12

that, masquerading as a country.

Trev: 01:01:15

So, they've got a lot of fuel and energy, Which is something that China would like

Trev: 01:01:21

to have, and China can provide, all the sorts of stuff that Russia might not

Trev: 01:01:28

be able to get because of sanctions.

Trev: 01:01:30

intermediaries like India are happy to act as middlemen for selling stuff.

Trev: 01:01:35

So, I was reading Joe, like, I think India now is, it used to sell, I

Trev: 01:01:43

don't know, 5 percent of, Petroleum products to the UK and now it's like

Trev: 01:01:47

50 percent because they're essentially just buying the Russian stuff and

Trev: 01:01:49

rebadging it and sending it off again.

Trev: 01:01:51

So these, these sort of sanctions just aren't working, which is a key to this

Trev: 01:01:57

whole new world that we're going with.

Trev: 01:02:00

okay.

Trev: 01:02:01

let me see.

Trev: 01:02:01

Oh God, there was an article about.

Trev: 01:02:05

A ceasefire?

Trev: 01:02:08

We reported on this, Joe, about two years ago when it happened, that

Trev: 01:02:13

there were discussions because Reuters reported them and we reported what

Trev: 01:02:18

Reuters was saying about ceasefire discussions and found this article

Trev: 01:02:26

that's got a bit more detail about it.

Trev: 01:02:29

So The German and French press are starting to talk about it and, are you

Trev: 01:02:38

aware of a German publication Die Welt?

Trev: 01:02:41

D I E?

Trev: 01:02:42

Die Welt, yeah.

Trev: 01:02:43

So is that like one of the major?

Trev: 01:02:46

It is.

Trev: 01:02:46

German, okay.

Trev: 01:02:47

So what I'm reading is an English translation of an article that

Trev: 01:02:52

appeared in that publication and, so, um, Ukraine and Russia, the secret

Trev: 01:03:00

document that could have ended the war.

Trev: 01:03:02

A few weeks after the Russian invasion, there could have

Trev: 01:03:05

been a successful solution.

Trev: 01:03:07

This is evident from a draft agreement that both warring parties negotiated by

Trev: 01:03:13

the April 15th, 2022, so two years ago.

Trev: 01:03:18

So, They've got the original document, and according to it,

Trev: 01:03:23

Kiev and Moscow largely agreed on the conditions for ending the war.

Trev: 01:03:29

Only a few points remained open.

Trev: 01:03:31

These were going to be personally negotiated by Putin and Zelensky, but

Trev: 01:03:36

that meeting never took place, and they go on to blame Boris Johnson for that.

Trev: 01:03:42

And so they say immediately after the outbreak of the war,

Trev: 01:03:46

Russian and Ukrainian negotiators.

Trev: 01:03:48

began negotiating and it was mediated by Turkish President Erdogan in

Trev: 01:03:57

Istanbul and they drafted an agreement.

Trev: 01:04:02

Basic principles were that, Ukraine would commit permanently to neutrality, meaning

Trev: 01:04:10

it would never be a member of NATO, and, but Kiev could be a member of the EU.

Trev: 01:04:19

in return, Russia assured it would not attack the Ukraine again, and to

Trev: 01:04:26

ensure Kiev could be confident of this.

Trev: 01:04:28

Moscow would allow Ukraine to enter into security agreements with the USA, the

Trev: 01:04:36

UK, France and China, basically providing a security guarantee, saying if you,

Trev: 01:04:43

if we, Russia, invade you, Ukraine, you can have an agreement with these

Trev: 01:04:48

countries to fight back, like a kind of a NATO like agreement, if we invade you.

Trev: 01:04:55

that was to try and give some comfort to the Ukrainians that the

Trev: 01:05:02

Russians wouldn't invade again.

Trev: 01:05:05

And basically, Russia was going to keep the Donbass regions it had

Trev: 01:05:11

already captured, the Crimea it had already captured, and and that

Trev: 01:05:15

was kind of a lot of the nuts and bolts of it, was they'd stopped with

Joe: 01:05:20

huge amount of

Trev: 01:05:22

Oh, yes, sorry, good point.

Trev: 01:05:23

Yes, let's get to that as well, which, let me get to that.

Trev: 01:05:27

Uh, so yes, as part of it as well, it was Russia insisting

Trev: 01:05:34

on Ukrainian demilitarization.

Trev: 01:05:36

so Moscow demanded that Kiev reduce its army to 85, 000 soldiers.

Trev: 01:05:42

It was currently at one million.

Trev: 01:05:44

Ukraine offered a troop strength of 250.

Trev: 01:05:47

So, the ideas also differed on the number of military equipment.

Trev: 01:05:52

Russia demanded the number of tanks, this is Ukrainian tanks, be reduced to

Trev: 01:05:58

342, while Kiev wanted to keep up to 800.

Trev: 01:06:01

Ukraine wanted to reduce the number of armoured vehicles to 2400.

Trev: 01:06:05

While Russia demanded only 1, 029, same with artillery pieces, Moscow

Trev: 01:06:10

proposed 519, Kiev 1, 900 for multiple rocket launches, Kiev wanted 600.

Trev: 01:06:21

With a range of 280 kilometres, Russia's vision was 96.

Trev: 01:06:25

So, quite detailed stuff, Joe, about number of men, number of tanks.

Trev: 01:06:32

So what I'm

Joe: 01:06:32

hearing is, you have less weapons, you're not allowed any

Joe: 01:06:36

foreign troops on your side.

Joe: 01:06:38

So Russia's aim is, we invade, take the whole of Ukraine before the other

Joe: 01:06:45

countries can come and fight us out.

Trev: 01:06:49

Ah, I don't know the timing of this.

Trev: 01:06:52

But it seems like, it seems like Ukraine was, was up for a lot of this stuff.

Trev: 01:07:01

Like they're negotiating these numbers with them, like they're

Trev: 01:07:04

talking significant numbers.

Trev: 01:07:05

it doesn't seem that way because according to this article by this

Trev: 01:07:09

respected German publication, Joe, would that be fair enough?

Trev: 01:07:13

Yeah.

Trev: 01:07:13

After more than two years of war, the deal seems advantageous in retrospect.

Trev: 01:07:18

Quote, that was the best deal we could have had, said a member of

Trev: 01:07:21

the then Ukrainian negotiating delegation to Weltam Sontag.

Trev: 01:07:28

What's that, Joe?

Trev: 01:07:29

Weltam Sontag.

Trev: 01:07:30

Ah.

Trev: 01:07:31

Ukraine has been on the defensive for months, suffering heavy losses.

Trev: 01:07:33

In hindsight, Ukraine was in a stronger negotiating position then, than it is now.

Trev: 01:07:39

Um, and it goes on to blame sort of Boris Johnson for not, sort of

Trev: 01:07:48

kiboshing the idea along the way.

Trev: 01:07:50

So it seems like two years ago, get rid of a lot of your army.

Trev: 01:07:57

we'll keep the Donbass we've already got.

Trev: 01:07:59

We'll keep the Crimea we've got.

Trev: 01:08:00

You don't join NATO, but you can strike deals with these major parties.

Trev: 01:08:05

about, them being involved if we decide to invade you.

Trev: 01:08:08

And Joe, Zelensky should have said yes to that, in my opinion.

Trev: 01:08:15

But I know we disagree on that one.

Trev: 01:08:18

Yeah.

Trev: 01:08:19

What else have we got here?

Joe: 01:08:20

Well, you know, peace and our time.

Trev: 01:08:22

Yes.

Trev: 01:08:23

there's just tens of thousands of men that have been killed

Trev: 01:08:26

unnecessarily for no gain.

Trev: 01:08:28

They're not going to get that territory back.

Trev: 01:08:30

They're just going to lose even more, so, ah, what else have I got here,

Trev: 01:08:38

what are we up to, 917, ah, look at my list, we're about half way through it,

Trev: 01:08:45

ah, and I'm inclined to keep a lot of it for next week, ah, is there any one

Trev: 01:08:51

in particular that I want to do here,

Joe: 01:08:54

Are there any you're saving for Scott?

Trev: 01:08:57

Yes.

Trev: 01:08:58

Okay.

Trev: 01:08:59

My democracy ones and China ones, I'll save for Scott.

Trev: 01:09:02

Yes.

Trev: 01:09:03

Good point.

Trev: 01:09:04

And economic zones.

Trev: 01:09:06

Next week, we're going to talk about that, that Australian helicopter that

Trev: 01:09:13

was supposedly, Joe, conducting, Ah, yes.

Trev: 01:09:19

Legitimately, according to Australia, it was involved in Freedom

Joe: 01:09:23

of navigation.

Trev: 01:09:24

Yes, but more importantly, it was involved in making sure that North

Trev: 01:09:28

Korea was not breaching its sanctions.

Trev: 01:09:33

Remembering North Korea is not allowed to import a lot of stuff.

Trev: 01:09:37

So, supposedly, according to the Australian government, the

Trev: 01:09:42

helicopter was involved in in sort of regulating and making sure that the

Trev: 01:09:52

North Koreans were not transporting illegal stuff across the ocean.

Trev: 01:10:01

The strange thing is, dear listener, normally if you would be, you know,

Trev: 01:10:06

transporting contraband of any substantive sort, you'd be doing it

Trev: 01:10:11

in a ship that's on top of the ocean.

Trev: 01:10:14

And the helicopters that we were using, well, why would you be using a helicopter?

Trev: 01:10:18

You would be using a ship to intercept another ship, and

Joe: 01:10:23

Well, a helicopter's got a greater line of sight.

Trev: 01:10:26

And it just so happened that these helicopters are also equipped

Trev: 01:10:30

with anti submarine detection stuff that they're custom designed to have.

Trev: 01:10:37

And it could well have been the case that Australia was actually

Trev: 01:10:41

dropping sonar buoys for submarine detection with the helicopters.

Trev: 01:10:46

it's probably more plausible than conducting sanction enforcing

Trev: 01:10:53

action against North Koreans.

Trev: 01:10:56

And, anyway, that will be a topic for next week.

Trev: 01:11:00

Hmm.

Trev: 01:11:02

Right.

Trev: 01:11:03

John says the fact is Russia invaded.

Trev: 01:11:05

Yes, they did, but you gotta get an end to it somehow.

Trev: 01:11:09

still sounds like a bad idea for Ukraine.

Trev: 01:11:12

Say that to the mothers of the 10, 000 men who have died between, that

Trev: 01:11:17

time and now, John, and their wives and their children and their siblings

Trev: 01:11:23

and see what they think about that.

Trev: 01:11:27

Alright, well, that'll do for one episode.

Trev: 01:11:30

We'll be back probably with Scott next week, provided he's not on

Trev: 01:11:34

some other social engagement.

Trev: 01:11:36

We'll talk to you then.

Trev: 01:11:38

Bye for now.

Joe: 01:11:39

Do svidaniya.

Trev: 01:11:41

What does that mean?

Joe: 01:11:42

Goodbye.

Trev: 01:11:44

Bloody show off, you and your foreign . language